What is the point of GM's notes?

[Bedrockgames]

It's not a living world, it's a futonic tesseract.

Which is why fiction is so dangerous a term here. We are stuck in a terribly written doctor who episode.

 

[Ovinomancer]

All kidding aside, I am quite certain a number of posters challenged the very idea of living worlds. We had pages of debate over it. I am not going to comb through and grab quotes for someone who hasn't made a serious post towards me though

They did not! I mean, I understand it a challenging world, what with all the equivocation involved (shudder), but I saw people asking for it to be defined clearly in terms of play process. Of course, this was, as you know, doomed to failure because most gamers automatically understand living world to be talking about planets (or planetoids) that are alive and not some concept of... well, I don't know. No one, though, denied their very existence -- that would be horrible on the scale of equivocation (shudder).

 

[prabe]

All kidding aside, I am quite certain a number of posters challenged the very idea of living worlds. We had pages of debate over it. I am not going to comb through and grab quotes for someone who hasn't made a serious post towards me though

I think there were people saying it wasn't particularly useful as a term, and/or asking for a good definition of it. I don't think anyone was saying they don't exist.

There may have been people arguing against living worlds' having an objective reality (which since they're fictional objects is an argument that makes sense) but that's not the same thing as saying the playstyle doesn't exist.

 

[Bedrockgames]

That's very unclear. Are living worlds Japanese mattresses that are unrolled onto the floor, in which case this claim that they unfold is very confusing, or are they low wooden sofas that can be used as a bed, in which case "unfold" is doing a lot of work here. I don't think most gamers are going to understand what you mean by futon in this context.

I really can't be bothered to summarize pages you can't bother to read, but no as was explained before, living worlds are all things that unfold, including futons. But it would also apply to drapes, an unfolding emotion (though there was lots of debate over whether that was just metaphorical unfolding), ladders, maps, etc. It is really the heart of understanding how a living world works

 

[AnotherGuy]

So in our last game set in FR (Mission to Thay), PCs word of recalled back to the Sword Coast after violently disagreeing with a high ranking member, Syranna, of the Thayan Resurrection (rebel group attempting to overthrow the Lich Szass Tam, current ruler of Thay). The cleric, now in Waterdeep, cast a sending revealing the secret location of the Thayan Resurrection members to the respective Thayan authorities.

I'm curious how indie techniques would resolve possible outcomes listed below or any other outcome, now that the session is over.

1. Syranna is cuptured by Thayan authorities
2. Syranna is killed by Thayan authorities
3. (1) or (2) above and her partner (also mentioned in the module, who was elsewhere) seeks vengeance on PCs.
4. Syranna survives
5. Syranna survives and seeks vengeance on PCs (with or without partner)

 

[Bedrockgames]

I think there were people saying it wasn't particularly useful as a term, and/or asking for a good definition of it. I don't think anyone was saying they don't exist.

There may have been people arguing against living worlds' having an objective reality (which since they're fictional objects is an argument that makes sense) but that's not the same thing as saying the playstyle doesn't exist.

Well, there were definitely people saying living worlds didn't work the way we were saying (that they weren't any different from any other kind of campaign). That it was basically just euphemistic language to describe GM fiat or something.

 

[pemerton]

this is one reason why the fiction is a problem as a term: can’t you see how it plays much more strongly into story now rather than sandbox? And it is because the term

Based on this post, I don't think you know what "story now" play is, or what it looks like at the table.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Elements that will be found in stories that will also be found in TRPGs include (but are not limited to): setting, character, events, and theme. Just off the top of my head; and the events of the game will likely form some sort of narrative, in a post facto way.

I don't think your argument is as strong as you think it is.

Again there are way too many examples of gamers finding oughts in the term story in RPGs for me to say this argument has no weight or is weak. I think you can already see the issues using the term fiction has generated here (and that is without real equivocation). I would definitely say the same issues that plagued the term story will plague this one

 

[Ovinomancer]

I really can't be bothered to summarize pages you can't bother to read, but no as was explained before, living worlds are all things that unfold, including futons. But it would also apply to drapes, an unfolding emotion (though there was lots of debate over whether that was just metaphorical unfolding), ladders, maps, etc. It is really the heart of understanding how a living world works

I don't need summaries to know that most gamers are going to be confused by the term "futon." It's very loaded -- in that it bears weight both when a Japanese mattress and when a low wooden couch unfolding into a bed. That there are pages of discussion doesn't remove this issue -- it's clear most gamers aren't going to know what you're talking about when you say "futon" in regards to "unfolding." They're going to think of a Japanese mattress unrolled on the floor and be very confused as to how that can "unfold."

By the by, who folded the living worlds to begin with? Is this related to equivocation (shudder)??

 

[prabe]

Well, there were definitely people saying living worlds didn't work the way we were saying (that they weren't any different from any other kind of campaign). That it was basically just euphemistic language to describe GM fiat or something.

So ... isn't establishing something that isn't the result of PC action GM Fiat? I personally don't object to calling setting creation GM Fiat when I do it.