What is the point of GM's notes?

[Aldarc]

I think we've actually managed to collectively hit on an important thing here. Games like Blades, or Dungeon World, have a very specific style that their mechanics are purpose-designed to foster and support. Talking about them is, at least in that way, pretty easy. Those games still vary from GM to GM of course, but not to the same extent that D&D or OSR games do. With those latter games things change. They lack the same mechanical support for a specific style or approach, that portion of their rules is left very much to the GM or perhaps the table to decide on. Here I'm talking about things like the division of agency or the fashion in which outcomes are driven by player decision making. That's neither a good nor a bad thing, just a thing. But it does result in a much higher variance in GM styles and approaches using the same rules set, and I think it's about as hard, perhaps harder, to compare two different D&D GM styles than it is to compare a Blades GM to a D&D GM because the rules themselves lack specific mechanics that would provide a shared frame of reference.

When you ask a PbtA GM how he works threats in his game, for example, he can point to the idea of fronts and be very specific about how those notes turn into adjudicated outcomes and consequences at his table. D&D or OSR games? No such luck. Each GM in those cases is faced with the problem of trying to elucidate their personal style from scratch, a style that they might well not have formally codified, it's just a collection of learned skills and habits accreted over time. That's not necessarily an easy thing to explain. Personally, I've taken a lot of ideas from PbtA and Blades and codified more of what I do at the table as a GM in those terms, even if might I adjust the specifics to match different systems or desired table outcomes. So for me it's maybe easier to compare my OSR campaign to a Blades campaign. But for someone who hasn't run Blades? Maybe more difficult. Frame of reference is, I think, tripping us up a little here.

I would like to second your point here. I think that reframing discussion around games and how they actively support these styles of play would be better than more generalized discussions of living worlds and what not.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Then his purposes would have been far better served had he not included it at all.

Look, I am just explaining to you, Estar isn't the kind of guy you decided he was based on the wording he chose. Do what you want with that information

 

[Fenris-77]

I would like to second your point here. I think that reframing discussion around games and how they actively support these styles of play would be better than more generalized discussions of living worlds and what not.

Also to examine, in any given game, what portions of the matter at hand aren't specifically supported, mechanically, and what GMs decide to do in those cases.

 

[Bedrockgames]

As I recall you elected in your first post in this thread to make hostile, passive-aggressive barbs about pemerton. Don't act like some sort of unfairly treated victim when people treat you like you choose to treat others.

I definitely take ownership of coming into the thread and stating, as I believed, the title was a trap (because I recognized his wording from one of our arguments earlier). And a bunch of posters chimed in to say I was basically right. But I don't mind taking heat for that particular thing. What I dislike is your steady stream of hostility, which frankly predates this thread.

 

[Fenris-77]

Look, I am just explaining to you, Estar isn't the kind of guy you decided he was based on the wording he chose. Do what you want with that information

Setting aside the acrimony here for a moment, I will state from personal knowledge that @estar is a chill dude and I've had many enjoyable, interesting, and drama free interactions with him online.

 

[robconley]

Then his purposes would have been far better served had he not included it at all.

Unlike you I don't assume. I don't know all the variations of fair play different cultures have. I know enough that they are not the same. So I qualified my answer. You don't know me well enough to have an opinion on what my views on western civilization are. I will say this, every person on this planet deserves a fair shake and respect. Try showing some yourself and doing the same.

 

[robconley]

I will say this about general issue of x-cards, social contracts, and small groups dynamics. If these techniques work great! It better to be proactive than not. If this whole issue of doing what right is an interest or concern. Then I recommend taking a leadership course or reading some books on the topics I mentioned. They will help more than you think. In addition many of these have leadership techniques that allow to you get a group going with these things without having them take the time to take the course or read the books. Believe they are aware not everybody has the time or interest so it factored in what they teach you.

And if you are still interested try two or three courses or books. The change in perspective different authors have is illuminating. Now I know it seem like a big ask but understand I did this over the course of decades. So my advice should be taken in the sense if you have time and opportunity do it then. Don't feel you have to drop what you do.

 

[Fenris-77]

Apropos of nothing in particular, every time I read @estar 's name I think of Astar the Robot, star of Canada's most hardcore PSAs and a piece of my childhood. I'm Astar the robot, I can put my arm back on, you can't, so play safe. Anyway, as you were gentlemen.

 

[hawkeyefan]

I view the part I highlighted in bold as a misconception. My advice is to work out how to roleplay the character from first principles every time it comes up. The character's personality. motivations, and goals are what they are but how the character acts on them at that moment in the campaign is not predetermined. At least in my campaign circumstances are too nuanced for me to do that. Instead I look through the character's eyes and imagine what would happen based on what the character see and known. If a bunch of things leap then maybe I will dice for it. Often there one or two things and it straightforward what to do as a result.

The only time something predetermined happens is that the PCs are not around. To be specific what they did or not do hasn't intersected what the NPC is doing or not doing. Then and only then will things proceed in accordance with my notes.

I wouldn't say it's a misconception. I mean, the example is from my game, and that's how I find it to be. The details of the character's history and personality that I've committed to (in so much as I commit to anything prior to it coming up in play) definitely steers things towards certain outcomes, or at least certain paths.

For instance, I chose to have the NPC be apprenticed to the same wizard as a PC, and that the NPC ultimately killed that wizard. Certainly, I've just put into play a strong potential for some kind of mission of revenge. Now, I did so knowing (or hoping and expecting) that the player would enjoy that idea. But I benefit from that player being a friend of 30 odd years.

What if I decided that the master wizard had done something to make the NPC apprentice hate him? Maybe he did what he thought he had to do, and is now considered a villain for it? Or.....what if the master wizard hadn't been murdered at all? What if the NPC apprentice balked at the assassination, and then was cursed or damned by the true villain? Those decisions would likely not result in a mission of revenge as readily as what I decided. Maybe then the PC would be looking to save or redeem the NPC? Totally different theme or feeling based entirely on the decision I made as a GM.

And this isn't necessarily good or bad, but it is what happens.

As you go on to say, there could be a myriad of possibilities.....but usually, a couple present themselves as the obvious choices. I think those obvious ones are very dependent on the GM in D&D and similar games. There's less surprise for the GM....less discovery. The more that the GM decides ahead of time, the more things are determined.

I mean, that's one of the main reasons we do so much prep for those games, right? To be prepared.....so that we don't have to make things up on the fly, so that we know what will or at least may happen. The more the GM decides ahead of time, the more things are determined.

Now, that's not to say things are fully predetermined. I feel there's still plenty of room for the players in my D&D game to change things up, and I'll respond accordingly, and maybe a lot will change. Of course that's the case. But I don't know if I'd say the same thing for my Blades game.

 

[robconley]

Apropos of nothing in particular, every time I read @estar 's name I think of Astar the Robot, star of Canada's most hardcore PSAs and a piece of my childhood. I'm Astar the robot, I can put my arm back on, you can't, so play safe. Anyway, as you were gentlemen.

:

It actually a shortened form of my LARP's character name Endless Star a paladin type I played in NERO LARP. My forum picture is me dressed as Endless Star. Was on the internet pretty early and thus was able to use estar as my username pretty much everywhere. But those days are gone and four letter username are nearly impossible to get. So I just my normal name now.