What is the point of GM's notes?

[Manbearcat]

My (very scant) experience with DW has done little to persuade me that persistent partial success feels heroic. Obviously, different people will feel differently about that.

If you ever roll 7-9s, you'll start collecting sufficient data to know how you feel one way or another!

Your ability to roll either 6 or less or 10 + is absolutely extraordinary! In a game that reliably produces a bell curve of results, somehow you've managed to pull off the ultra-rare inverted bell curve!

In all seriousness though, these are the ones off the top of my head for your character. Any of them beyond these that stick out to you?

* Climb down a 100 ft vertical face. You get halfway down and your route narrows you to a dangerous, shallow ledge where you're faced with a decision-point of either a more difficult way down in the now sprinkling rain (where you aren't DDing- Strength) or a huge leap into a cave of unknown nature origin/nature adjacent to you. Its basically a decision-point of "do you want to take to assume the risk of the unknown in trade for the mathematically strong option or do you want to assume the risk of the known with the return of being where you want to be (at the bottom) for the less mathematically strong option." That sort of answer will tell you/us something about your character.

* An Aid for Discern Realities where you'd be eating the complication if there was one (didn't end up being one).

* A grapple escape in the swamp (this was either Shambler or Dire Croc...don't recall). This one ended up costing you 2 ruined Rations as you scrambled free, out of trouble in the water, and onto the tiny bit of land.

* The climb down from the steep lip of the watering hole to wade into the reservoir and pick the Bloodwart. I activated the two Dire Crocs to move toward you for a predation attempt as a result.

* The aforementioned Heirloom weapon move where you consulted your spirits for one of them to help you be proficient with the Ancient Speech. They did and now its on you to make it useful (you did with a follow-up move that won the social conflict).

Those 5 are the ones that come to mind. Is there one that I missed or one that particularly stands out?

The only other thing I can recall is a 10+ Hack and Slash that you decided to take the extra d6 damage in return for a counterattack (effectively turning it into a 7-9 for more damage) and you somehow managed to a 1 on a 1d10 and a 1 on your 1d6 and get absolutely nothing done! Which, by the way, outside of fighting like an Ancient Dragon...this is maybe the 3rd time in all my DW GMing I've seen a Fighter "push" on a 10+ Hack and Slash not yield a kill! Again, extraordinary!

What sticks out for me (with your character) is an deranged abundance of 6- and bad damage rolls.

 

[Manbearcat]

I do think it is interesting that some acts in Story Now would be viewed as practically cheating in my own style of gaming. I imagine the same would be true in reverse. The social compact is just entirely different.

Another way you might put the above is this:

* In some (not all) Story Now play, these game engines are going to feature powerful player content generation + action resolution capability (see Blades' Flashbacks) that allows them to reframe a situation (not to retcon an outcome, but to add something advantageous to the situation). This is gives everyone a subtler, less beefy form of the kind of apex Wizard/Cleric spells we're used to in D&D (Fly, Teleport, Divinations, Raise Dead, etc). In some (not all) Story Now play, these game engines are going to feature powerful player fiat abilities that do effectively let them retcon a moment (Immediate Interrupts in 4e). In some (not all) Story Now play, "ask questions and use the answers" is a primary principle of GMing whereby the 7-9 result of Spout Lore in DW (the GM will tell you something interesting...its on you to make it useful) is uniformly operationalized except in reverse (the player will tell the table something interesting...its now on the GM and all the other participants, including the initiating player themselves) to make it it useful.

* In Trad and Neo-Trad D&D, the GM's mandate to curate content and oblige either their own (the GM's) conception or a player's conception of "the story" can (not will, but can) manifest in GM Force (the subversion of the system's volition or a non-GM participant's volition when it comes to inputs into the fiction or outputs of action resolution that would change the fiction/gamestate in a way that is perceived as retrograde by the GM).

 

[Emerikol]

Another way you might put the above is this:

* In some (not all) Story Now play, these game engines are going to feature powerful player content generation + action resolution capability (see Blades' Flashbacks) that allows them to reframe a situation (not to retcon an outcome, but to add something advantageous to the situation). This is gives everyone a subtler, less beefy form of the kind of apex Wizard/Cleric spells we're used to in D&D (Fly, Teleport, Divinations, Raise Dead, etc). In some (not all) Story Now play, these game engines are going to feature powerful player fiat abilities that do effectively let them retcon a moment (Immediate Interrupts in 4e). In some (not all) Story Now play, "ask questions and use the answers" is a primary principle of GMing whereby the 7-9 result of Spout Lore in DW (the GM will tell you something interesting...its on you to make it useful) is uniformly operationalized except in reverse (the player will tell the table something interesting...its now on the GM and all the other participants, including the initiating player themselves) to make it it useful.

* In Trad and Neo-Trad D&D, the GM's mandate to curate content and oblige either their own (the GM's) conception or a player's conception of "the story" can (not will, but can) manifest in GM Force (the subversion of the system's volition or a non-GM participant's volition when it comes to inputs into the fiction or outputs of action resolution that would change the fiction/gamestate in a way that is perceived as retrograde by the GM).

I guess we can see which explanation seems the easiest to grasp ;-).

I was mainly thinking about that moment when a PC said they'd earlier poured oil into the area so the fireball had a greater effect. That may have been in the Blades thread or one like it. In my game, that would be frowned upon because such maneuvers would go against the whole notion of skilled play. If you wanted oil under the guy you should have piped up at that time and not waited until the fireball was being cast and then retconned it. So in my game that would be borderline cheating to even propose the idea. Whereas, I think it would not in the Story Now approach. There can be skill I'm sure in Story Now but I don't think it is skill at making character decisions to win against enemies.

 

[Manbearcat]

I guess we can see which explanation seems the easiest to grasp ;-).

I was mainly thinking about that moment when a PC said they'd earlier poured oil into the area so the fireball had a greater effect. That may have been in the Blades thread or one like it. In my game, that would be frowned upon because such maneuvers would go against the whole notion of skilled play. If you wanted oil under the guy you should have piped up at that time and not waited until the fireball was being cast and then retconned it. So in my game that would be borderline cheating to even propose the idea. Whereas, I think it would not in the Story Now approach. There can be skill I'm sure in Story Now but I don't think it is skill at making character decisions to win against enemies.

Yup, that is exactly what I wrote above; "A Flashback."

Its an interesting contrast you're drawing here. Not only is it "not cheating" in Blades it is actually the "Skillful Play" application of "Act Now, Plan Later"; a Blades in the Dark imperative (for genre and Skilled Play).

The Blades player is playing skillfully because they're making both a tactical and strategic decision using the vehicles of (a) action resolution machinery + (b) fictional positioning manipulation. They're risking (c) the situation going from dangerous to worse (if an Action Roll is required it could bring about a new Complication of varying dastardliness) and (d) putting up a resource (Stress) which could cost them later (both the (c) and the (d) here).

This is thematic + tactical + strategic play in Blades. This is Skilled Play in Blades in the Dark.

The reason why you're feeling it is cheating is something I brought up above (or perhaps in another thread). "Act Now Plan Later" is anathema to Classic D&D. Its quite literally the first hurdle exclusive Classic D&D players have to overcome when playing a game like Blades; their conception that the only kind of Skilled Play is "Plan Now so you don't have to Act Later or so that your Act Later is at considerably reduced risk."

 

[Emerikol]

The reason why you're feeling it is cheating is something I brought up above (or perhaps in another thread). "Act Now Plan Later" is anathema to Classic D&D. Its quite literally the first hurdle exclusive Classic D&D players have to overcome when playing a game like Blades; their conception that the only kind of Skilled Play is "Plan Now so you don't have to Act Later or so that your Act Later is at considerably reduced risk."

Well I think we are violently agreeing for the most part.

Don't you agree though that if you really were the character living in the fantasy world that my sort of planning is what would really happen? We can't retcon the past in real life. So players of my style are seeking that character viewpoint decision process. That does not by an means imply your approach cannot be fun but it very much is a synthesis of a lot more than just character decision making.

 

[Manbearcat]

Well I think we are violently agreeing for the most part.

Don't you agree though that if you really were the character living in the fantasy world that my sort of planning is what would really happen? We can't retcon the past in real life. So players of my style are seeking that character viewpoint decision process. That does not by an means imply your approach cannot be fun but it very much is a synthesis of a lot more than just character decision making.

I don’t think we’re agreeing or disagreeing (violent or otherwise)!

When you framed things around “cheating” I inferred you were talking about Skilled Play as a priority (eg deploying flashbacks would be “cheating” or “not playing skillfully” at your table in whatever game you’re referring to; which appears to be done instantiation of Classic Skilled Play D&D).

But given your response above, it looks like you meant “cheating” as in “cheating the implacable continuity of time as a person would experience it.” Or something like that usage of “cheating?”

 

[Fenris-77]

Cheating death! Cheating on your taxes!! Skipping leg day!!!

 

[Emerikol]

I don’t think we’re agreeing or disagreeing (violent or otherwise)!

When you framed things around “cheating” I inferred you were talking about Skilled Play as a priority (eg deploying flashbacks would be “cheating” or “not playing skillfully” at your table in whatever game you’re referring to; which appears to be done instantiation of Classic Skilled Play D&D).

But given your response above, it looks like you meant “cheating” as in “cheating the implacable continuity of time as a person would experience it.” Or something like that usage of “cheating?”

Well "feels like cheating" of course. I wasn't making a moral judgment on anyone.

And again that is according to the accepted social contract of the game. For example one such accepted thing in my games would be that PCs do not invent new "fiction" outside of the actions of their characters. That would absolutely not be an issue in a Story Now game. In fact the social contract would be that players are expected to do exactly that.

So if the premise as you say is skilled play and mine is always including that element, then sure you can't allow a retcon to solve poor earlier choices. In Story Now, I don't want to say there is no skill involved but it is a different sort of skill. There is likely skill at coming up with the retconned explanation. I just think when I talk about skilled play I don't mean that.

 

[prabe]

If you ever roll 7-9s, you'll start collecting sufficient data to know how you feel one way or another!

Your ability to roll either 6 or less or 10 + is absolutely extraordinary! In a game that reliably produces a bell curve of results, somehow you've managed to pull off the ultra-rare inverted bell curve!

I tried to warn you. Dice behave strangely around me. More so if I'm the one rolling.

In all seriousness though, these are the ones off the top of my head for your character. Any of them beyond these that stick out to you?

I don't remember much else, no. I have to say the game is roughly performing the way I expected it to--but then, I know how random behaves around me. I've rolled a handful of d20s (resolving multiple attacks as a DM) and had results in the same combat of four nat-1s, and 3 nat-20s.

What sticks out for me (with your character) is an deranged abundance of 6- and bad damage rolls.

Yeah. In some systems, it'd be possible to build a character who was less dependent on dice (or more resilient to bad results). Or, failing that, to sometimes fall back on actions that weren't dice-dependent. Dungeon World is not one of either type of system, that I can tell.

 

[Campbell]

I think it's a mistake to assume skilled play must look a certain way in all games. Skilled play of the fiction looks different in Blades than it does in Classic D&D thanks to its nonlinear elements, but it's still a very high design priority. The skills involved are just different.