D&D 5E What is the point of material components when Wish exists?

  • Thread starter ghostofchristmaspast
  • Start date

DeanP

Explorer
Ghost, if the wish casting character is not in the middle of an adventure, he could spend the time he needs saving on material components and resorting to the most powerful magic he knows to duplicate lesser (some by a degree) spells. If he's on a epic quest against equally dangerous foes, it may not be in his best interest or the interest of his fellows to cast wish for a lesser spell and then take a long rest. It's rather situational.
 

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Prism

Explorer
When you are a 17th level wizard and not currently adventuring then sure you can use wish to cast any lower level spell and not worry about cost. Good use of a spell for such an epic arcane caster.

When adventuring there are probably better choices
 

Lehrbuch

First Post
Yes, you... and sleeping for 8 hours is somehow worth more than 1500gp how exactly?

Using Wish to duplicate a lower level spell is really only a good idea if you a) want the lower level effect, and b) can't cast the lower level effect.

The reasons for not being able to cast the lower level effect include i) wrong class, ii) not having memorised the spell, iii) not having the spell in your spell book, iv) not having the material components, v) not being able to manage the somantic component for some reason (Wish is Verbal only), vi) out of casting slots.

Of these reasons preventing casting, not having the material components is usually the easiest to overcome. High level characters with access to Wish typically have access to money and/or other resources.

So, there are certainly circumstances when using Wish is a great idea. Just using it to save spell component cost seems a bit unlikely, unless the PC has got plenty of time and nothing much to do (and has access to the Wish spell, of course). However, typically adventurers having Adventures have little time and lots to do.
 


I'm still stuck on the fact that this is only even an issue for characters of 17th level and above. The component system is in place for characters of all levels. There are lots of details in the game that only apply to characters of a certain level range, but nobody questions why they exist. It's like asking why have rules for long-distance travel because the teleport spell exists.

I'm just... stumbling over the logic here.
 

Lehrbuch

First Post
I'm just... stumbling over the logic here.

It smells of a "theoretical concern" that arises in a hypothetical, high-level character "build". That is, not an in-play concern at all.

Even if a character is high enough level to cast Wish there are still plenty of reasons not to use it for everything.
 

NotActuallyTim

First Post
It smells of a "theoretical concern" that arises in a hypothetical, high-level character "build". That is, not an in-play concern at all.

Even if a character is high enough level to cast Wish there are still plenty of reasons not to use it for everything.

It kinda doesn't. It smells more like 'late night posting with no coffee.'
 

It smells of a "theoretical concern" that arises in a hypothetical, high-level character "build". That is, not an in-play concern at all.

Even if a character is high enough level to cast Wish there are still plenty of reasons not to use it for everything.

Post #15 in this thread may be illuminating if you want to know where GhostofChristmasPast is coming from. Looks like an old gamer learning a new edition.
 
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That... doesn't make sense to me at all. It still doesn't touch on how a spell that only a few characters can cast, at only at 17th+ level, should somehow invalidate an entire subsystem.

I mean, I don't have to understand, of course. But all I can do is shake my head and go "Huh?"
 

What it tells me is that the concern is theorycraft based on little experience with 5E. No wonder it doesn't make sense to you--you know better because you've played 5E a lot! The guy will figure things out eventually after some more experience, presumably.
 

Xvartslayer

First Post
Post #15 in this thread may be illuminating if you want to know where GhostofChristmasPast is coming from. Looks like an old gamer learning a new edition.

Real, not sarcastic, question: why would this be an "old school" thing? From 3e and beyond Wish kind of became Limited Wish, and the ambiguous and open ended nature of Wish was eliminated from the character side of the equation. Or so it seems to me.
 

MechaPilot

Explorer
I have no real issue with Wish allowing one to cast without components: components really should be nothing more than flavor anyway, and giving them a monetary value feels sort of cheap to me. I recall once running a game where the raise dead spell required as its material component "tears of a virgin widow." You should have seen the look my players gave me when that came up as the result of their research.
 

Byakugan

First Post
Awee...a theoretical thread where both Simulacrum and Wish got discussed and nobody pointed out the infinite Wish loop.

I am disappointed.
 

Real, not sarcastic, question: why would this be an "old school" thing? From 3e and beyond Wish kind of became Limited Wish, and the ambiguous and open ended nature of Wish was eliminated from the character side of the equation. Or so it seems to me.

He mentioned psionics and I immediately thought "AD&D". I had forgotten that psionics also existed in the in-between editions that I never played (3E and 4E). So on reflection, he may or may not be as old school as I had originally assumed.
 


Prism

Explorer
Well our OP has packed up and left the site after not getting the answers they wanted so I guess that's that then.
 

Kalshane

First Post
I realize it's a moot point, since the OP took his ball and went home, but I personally don't see why a character that is near the pinnacle of their craft can't circumvent the usual rules of magic once per day (and we see similar aspects in the Signature and Favored Spell abilities). The character could also expend the same amount of energy to demolish a small village from a mile away, step outside the time stream for half a minute or transform into just about any creature he can think of, among other things. Expending that same energy to save himself on the cost of a bag of diamond dust or whatever seems trivial in comparison.
 

JustTom

First Post
Has anybody even read the spell text? YOU DON'T LOOSE WISH AFTER YOU USED IT TO CAST ANOTHER SPELL.

The word is LOSE not LOOSE.

Second, sure you can cast wish to avoid the material component costs of a lower-level spell, but in doing so you avoid the use of any other 9th level spell. Any wizard who has made it to the 17th level is going to have both some pretty powerful enemies AND enormous wealth. Spending 1500 GPs on material components is probably a pretty good tradeoff for having the flexibility of using your 9th level spell slot on something else.
 


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