D&D General What is the Ranger to you?

CapnZapp

Legend
So, I’ve noticed that a lot of people who point to Aragorn as their quintessential embodiment of the ranger archetype also say that spell casting is an essential feature of the ranger class. This has always confused me, given that Aragorn never... uh... casts spells. Anyone who feels this way care to shed some light on this for me?
Yeah no, casting a few weak-ass spells have never felt core to me.

I would gladly give them up, especially since they're likely rated far higher than their actual worth. Put that design space into actual combat ability for master or companion any day!
 

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CapnZapp

Legend
Rangers are example number 3 on a list I like to call "Fighters aren't allowed to do cool things."
Yeah, Aragorn is obviously a Fighter who just happened to take the Survival and Herbalism proficiencies.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely think there's design space for a "Ranger", but basing it so heavily on Strider-Aragorn is awfully narrow...
 


Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
So, I’ve noticed that a lot of people who point to Aragorn as their quintessential embodiment of the ranger archetype also say that spell casting is an essential feature of the ranger class. This has always confused me, given that Aragorn never... uh... casts spells. Anyone who feels this way care to shed some light on this for me?

And even talking animal languages was something anyone in that world could use or learn. The D&D ranger was spell using entirely because the games designers acted like it had no design space for non-magic using characters doing nice things which has been mentioned... so they had to have spells.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
One might postulate that the magic of oaths which affected characters even across the gulf of death was "Kings Magic" - I have a martial practice called Marshal Troops which arguably could be leveraged if one wanted a mechanical element for that plot fix but the dude saved up huge amounts of karma LOL. Kings magic is also asserted in story as to why using just a weed and simple handling which any healer could do - was miraculously effective and not just him being an herbalist or ranger but rather of him being something else entirely different.

The tolkien ranger is a Dunedain its a race akin to half elf. In a story where elves are ageless.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Yeah no, casting a few weak-ass spells have never felt core to me.

I would gladly give them up, especially since they're likely rated far higher than their actual worth. Put that design space into actual combat ability for master or companion any day!

Agreed - In the early game it was pasted on at a level that was too high... they were low impact in comparison to every single thing happening they were low level effects too little to late.
 

Celebrim

Legend
As others have pointed out, the ranger can be a few different things. I think the class started out as a mix of a few related things, but grew out of control. It actually a good poster child for why I've become even more disenchanted by a class-based system -- I think it's stupid to use classes as bundles of abilities without archetypes, but I've found myself doing so more and more.

I can see where you are coming from, but in my experience with high detail rules heavy point buy systems they tend to make for terrible games. I can think of some ways around that such as character burners, but class based systems have one huge advantage - they enforce breadth of skill that makes it much easier to play ensemble games with everyone contributing.

What I tend to think you are talking about is more the result of bad class design than it is an inherent problem with class based systems.

In my own game, I had huge problems with the Ranger because it was inherently too narrow, and my big thing in classes is, "Could you have a party of 4-6 characters where everyone took this class and they all felt different?" If you have a class that is an animal handling wilderness magic using archer, you've already made so many choices for the player as to what their character was like that the answer to that question is probably 'no'.

So what I did was strip Ranger down to what I thought was it's bare essentials, and that for me was the idea of Hunter - this is someone that specializes in finding and killing particular things. So in this view of things, Von Helsing is a Hunter, because he's the archetypal Undead Hunter. And Jason Bourne is also a Hunter, because he's trained as an Assassin - to kill his fellow human beings. And of course Bounty Hunters are hunters, and so potentially is a police detective - Javier from Les Miserables is a Hunter. All of these ideas and characters open up for the class, if you strip the class down a bit and allow the player and not the system to make the choices for the class.

The thing is, with just a little bit of work, you can make a 'Hunter' into anything that a Ranger can be, either with build choices or by multi-classing. Want to be a druidic paladin? Multi-class into a spell-casting class to pick up some minor spells, or have a sub-class or both. Want to be death on wheels? Emphasis your combat ability and maybe multiclass into fighter. What to be a twf master, well that's basically 'death on wheels' with some particular build choices. Want to be a wilder-rogue, or to put another name on it, a 'scout'? Well, emphasis your stealth capabilities and maybe multi-class into rogue. Want to be an animal handler? Sure, you have the skill set to become good at that and all that is needed is some appropriate build choices whether feats or subclass.

Just imagine if in 5e the core class was Hunter and not Ranger, just how many different new and exciting subclass possibilities that would open up.

As an aside, I've always assumed Aragorn was mostly a Paladin who'd picked up some woodsman type skills. He was after-all in disguise, and the rangers in the story were basically outcast Cavaliers - men of noble birth and blood that were forced by circumstances to live in the wilds. Aragorn spends 2/3rds of the books wearing mail, fighting battles, leading other men into battle, and riding horses. If you read his background, he spent most of his life as a 'Black Knight' - his disguise in more civilized lands. Consider also that Aragorn has the ability to 'lay on hands', as any good medieval High King would (thus the 'hands of the king are the hands of a healer'). I've always felt the Ranger class was a really bad translation of what Tolkien was going for, obviously inspired though it was by the book.
 



Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
ideally, none of those would have a level of Ranger, except perhaps the trapper. Rogues and fighters with the right skills and backgrounds cover those characters.

So your argument is "because some other class could also fulfill the role, these can not be done with Ranger? That's trivially seen as incorrect.

The Ranger isn’t just a hunter or scout or woodsman. They’re a champion of nature and defender of the free folk. That’s why we use the term Ranger rather than scout or hunter. The core element of Tolkien rangers that has always been and should always be part of the identity of the class is that purpose. Being not just a simple scout, but a guardian as well.

I could accept your premise if there was a Ranger oath section like the Paladin has.

Baring that, I'll have to go with the fluff provided in the first several sections of the ranger, including the "Creating a Ranger" section, which clearly gives examples outside of this narrow view.

While any particular setting or table might have specific roles for the classes, in terms of D&D 5e the PHB clearly gives examples of rangers who are outside this view. Rangers can be everything you say - but there are plenty of other valid Rangers that are not.
 

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