Mannahnin
Scion of Murgen (He/Him)
Godsdammit I was all set to nominate "Ulalume" and you had to remind me of Robert Service!Does the Cremation of Sam McGee count as epic...
Godsdammit I was all set to nominate "Ulalume" and you had to remind me of Robert Service!Does the Cremation of Sam McGee count as epic...
I'm not sure how much interest there is in a "What is the single best epic poem" thread, but I'm game.
What was the controversy on the first book being adapted for the 1st season? I don't remember there being much complaining back then.wow, a bit torn on this one. I can only pick one (if we are going by a more modern/postmodern definition of fantasy):
A Game of Throne Despite the controversy around the sh*te-tv adaptation; it truly remains my favorite, though a very very close second (and until recently was my top favorite) was the Lord of the Rings
Well, the publication dates for Vol 1-3 tell a radically different story about the effect of finances on an author's discipline:A Storm of Swords is an absolutely an amazing banger of a book, just loads of "GASP!" moments spaced exactly enough apart that they remain effective and the story angled so well that every one of them is completely believable in the context of the setting and characters. GRRM at his absolutely peak and the bloody red wedding among countless other events.
It set up the time-skip and GRRM could have had it all. He could have had it all. But then went and cancelled the time skip, and it's been downhill all the way since then - not that 4 and 5 weren't good, but were they are good as any of 1-3? No. Will Winds of Winter come out in the next five years? No. Will A Dream of Spring ever come out? No.
Why'd you have to skip the time jump you so lovingly designed George, why man?
That's the problem with GRRM. He doesn't "lovingly" design anything. He doesn't write to an outline and has only a mostly firm idea of where he wants to get to -- with no idea or set plan as to how he will get there. He describes this to writing as a "gardener" as opposed to as an "architect".Why'd you have to skip the time jump you so lovingly designed George, why man?
I mean, the big problem with your theory here is that:Well, the publication dates for Vol 1-3 tell a radically different story about the effect of finances on an author's discipline:
A Game of Thrones - August 1996
A Clash of Kings - November 1998
A Storm of Swords - November 2000
This is the publication history of the first three novels in the series. What isn't mentioned above is when sales started to REALLY ramp up and take off. That came in the wake of A Storm of Swords.
I bought AGoT in its paperback edition, so I am relatively certain that was in early 1997 that I got it. I bought all subsequent volumes in the series in hardcover more or less on the first day of release. Thing is, with ACoK and ASoS, that wasn't initially bestseller territory. There were fantasy fans at the time in 1997 who were huge fans and it won some major awards. But the word of mouth at the time was literally that: Word of Mouth. The Internet did not play all that large a role in the popularity of the series in the late 90s at all. Netscape and all the rest of the early web was still very much new in the late 90s and had not yet become a defining feature of modern society that it would take on in the early 2000s with the spread of cable internet.
Still, all of that changed for GRRM with ASoS. That novel is so exceptional that it elevated the two books before it and sales of the series as a whole started to take off as the novels moved out of the genre and into the mainstream. ASoIaF became a monster of a series in the wake of ASoS, one that would ultimately have a real and lasting impact on the genre and popular culture itself started with ASoS. Popularity of the novels ramped up significantly after that and sales started then moved exponentially.
The result was that GRRM no longer had to worry about paying the mortgage. He started to make damned good money off of those three books. And that's when the slowdown starts. A Feast for Crows was not released until 2005; a disappointment as many of the main characters do not appear with their own perspective chapters at all, notably Jon and Tyrion. A Dance of Dragons was released at the end of the broadcast of the 1st season of HBO's Game of Thrones, and sales of the whole series increased by orders of magnitude, world-wide. GRRM had more than HALF the top 10 best-sellers on Amazon for more than a year based on the phenomenal success of the HBO series. By that time in 2010, GRRM was already wealthy enough that his attention span necessary to write had waned; and with the sales of his novels after the 1st season of GoT went viral, basically, GRRM became stinking rich off his per copy royalties; indeed, the author himself became a celebrity. That simply doesn't happen to fantasy authors. Yet it did, just the same.
And so we have not seen a new novel in the series in 12 years - and counting. Turns out, having to pay the rent is an excellent motivator for an author.
None of that should take away from the fact that ASoS truly is an outstanding candidate for the Best Fantasy novel of all time. It is an achievement in fiction that, because of GoT, all of this became part of popular culture: The Red Wedding, the attack on the Wall by the wildings and the death of Ygrette, the poisoning of Joffrey, Oberynn's duel with the Mountain at Tyrion's trial, the strangling of Shae and Tyrion's crossbow bolt into Tywin as he sat on the toilet? All of this is ASoS.
The only novel which can compete with the footprint left by A Storm of Swords is The Lord of the Rings or perhaps Harry Potter (as its sales were literally unprecedented). That is where A Storm of Swords rises to - that's as rarified an atmosphere in fantasy literature as it gets.
Funny how that only seems to apply to GRRM.Turns out, having to pay the rent is an excellent motivator for an author.
But it doesn't apply to only GRRM. It has applied to many authors who experience sudden immense mainstream success. You mention Lynch, who has had some success with Locke Lamora and the Gentlemen Bastards. Problem is, that's small scale; the sort of genre success that GRRM had in his first three novels. It isn't success like ASoIaF post ASoS.Funny how that only seems to apply to GRRM.
It does only apply there though, it seems, because you are hyperfocused on the fantasy genre and are completely blinding yourself to genre writers in general.But it doesn't apply to only GRRM. It has applied to many authors who experience sudden immense mainstream success. You mention Lynch, who has had some success with Locke Lamora and the Gentlemen Bastards. Problem is, that's small scale; the sort of genre success that GRRM had in his first three novels. It isn't success like ASoIaF post ASoS.
To get to that level of success, the only other contemporary fantasy author who has enjoyed that degree of financial success on the bestseller lists -- and the fat cheques coming from Hollywood to buy the rights to his series -- you would have to go to Patrick Rothfuss and the Kingkiller Chronicles. And his publication history literally stalls and slides into GRRM's "rut of non-progress" precisely when he struck it rich, too. Not GRRM levels of rich, no, but very few fantasy authors become overnight millionaires. Like GRRM, Rothfuss is the exception (in terms of commercial success) and so falls within the same "rule" that nothing motivates a muse like a landlord with an outstretched hand.
When you look at the publishing history of major novelists who have become ridiculously wealthy and yet turn out product regularly and on time? It's quite a short list, really. And when you stop and really look at it, the success and sheer focus that Stephen King and JK Rowling had as writers -- all while experiencing wealth in the hundreds of millions of dollars -- is truly exceptional.
And perhaps that is simply human nature. Were I to put myself in GRRM's fiscal shoes? I'd probably be just the same. If I win a lottery for millions of dollars, there will certainly be "signs". And one of those signs will be me not going to work this Monday -- or any Monday after it until the end of my life. So, to be fair, I get it.
Still sucks as a fan though.
Did the AMPTP write this? Or a landlord? (I kid but come on man read the room)nothing motivates a muse like a landlord with an outstretched hand
It's just not true!And perhaps that is simply human nature. Were I to put myself in GRRM's fiscal shoes? I'd probably be just the same. If I win a lottery for millions of dollars, there will certainly be "signs". And one of those signs will be me not going to work this Monday -- or any Monday after it until the end of my life. So, to be fair, I get it.