Level Up (A5E) What is the vision of the high level fighter?

[Garthanos]

Arthur is very young and inexperienced when he grabs the token of kingship ie not some high level AD&D character and there are subsequent stories which including slaying dragons (symbolic of kings yes but we are talking a fantasy Arthur arent we and not the Warlord who never became King in the 600s right? ). There are references to him blinding enemies from the light like or of the morning sun shining off that blade (I recall the reference fairly far back). Once you hit more modern movies especially becoming cool around the movie Excalibur where he invokes its power and breaks it in the act of unjustly defeating Lancelot (didnt happen in earlier stories but I say hang that) there is ancient magic in being king which connects you to the land (perhaps you gain hunting and gathering and similar bonuses based on your con when in your land) and the power of kings relates to oaths in the way paladins are empowered by it like when the unforgiven dead are invoked by Aragorn. A more generalized form might be to say those who oath bind with him become empowered (in 5e Oath of the Crown being an extreme form.) Imagine being able to walk into a village and empower all the low levels to be effectively 2 levels higher because they fight in your name. I mentioned early reference (I think it was Welsh? of Arthur and his Primary Companion an Irishman traveling into the otherworld). If that is Lugh Lamfada (Lug Llewanleach? which may have become Lancelot by linguistic fun and games and french authors) then it might have been a very high level Arthur indeed.

I will say arthur was not supposed to be better than Lancelot or even an equal in a fight but it didnt necessarily make him not of epic caliber.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Arthur is very young and inexperienced when he grabs the token of kingship ie not some high level AD&D character and there are subsequent stories which including slaying dragons (symbolic of kings yes but we are talking a fantasy Arthur arent we and not the Warlord who never became King in the 600s right? ). There are references to him blinding enemies from the light like or of the morning sun shining off that blade (I recall the reference fairly far back). Once you hit more modern movies especially becoming cool around the movie Excalibur where he invokes its power and breaks it in the act of unjustly defeating Lancelot (didnt happen in earlier stories but I say hang that) there is ancient magic in being king which connects you to the land (perhaps you gain hunting and gathering and similar bonuses based on your con when in your land) and the power of kings relates to oaths in the way paladins are empowered by it like when the unforgiven dead are invoked by Aragorn. A more generalized form might be to say those who oath bind with him become empowered (in 5e Oath of the Crown being an extreme form.) Imagine being able to walk into a village and empower all the low levels to be effectively 2 levels higher because they fight in your name. I mentioned early reference (I think it was Welsh? of Arthur and his Primary Companion an Irishman traveling into the otherworld). If that is Lugh Lamfada (Lug Luanleach?) then it might have been a very high level Arthur indeed.

All great, but now we have to figure out what parts of that are fighter specific.


Is wielding an Artifact weapon whose magic blinds people specific to Fighters?

Is the magic of being a King specific to Fighters, or if my Cleric became King would he gain the same powers?



And, if we can take all of Arthur's power and say "this was because of his magic item" and "This was just the magic of being King" then none of that works for a Fighter. Because it ends up being tied to kinghood and artifacts.

 

[Stalker0]

I don’t think any of the people mentioned are even close to 20th level, maybe 10th. Just look at what they fight...ordinary men, some moderate mages, and maybe a CR 5 troll creature.

none of them are fighting ancient dragons, demon lords, and multiverse ending threats.

 

[Minigiant]

Is the magic of being a King specific to Fighters, or if my Cleric became King would he gain the same powers?

Maybe it is? In the old days, there were all kinds of restrictions on classes that invoked xp drain, tithes, economic vampirism, organizaion membership, duels, and item restrictions.

Maybe only fighters (and rogues I guess) can become kings and attract magic items by virtue of being free of all the background nonsense? Or at least be better kings and get better items?

These are questions we as a community must sit down and answer or the designers do it for us without our input.

 

[Stalker0]

I had an epiphany last night, which is actually an old idea. One of the fighters issue is flexibility, he is always going to suffer versus casters that have so many tools for the job, or can change their tools day to day.

So the solution, we give the fighter flexibility in an area it’s been known for since 3e...feats.

Adaptive Style

Choose a feat from the following list (covers the initial core feats we want to include) plus any feat with the adaptive keyword (covers new feats in the advanced book).

As a bonus action, the fighter changes this feat with another applicable one. He cannot change the feat again until after a short rest.


so now, a fighter faces flying enemies? He takes a feat to help ranged or thrown attacks.

facing a super domination wizard? Take resilient on wisdom saves or maybe mage slayer.

suddenly dropped in a super hot plane? Take the new advanced endurance feat That mimics an endure elements effect.


our high level fighter now can choose the right tool for the job when he needs it. Further we don’t have to create special abilities or stances or xyz...we simply augment a system that already exists (feats).

while it may not be ah equal to magic, this gives the fighter a lot of flexibility in a mundane space, using a tool players are well familiar with and already commonly associate the fighter with.

Its super simple and yet super powerful

instead of trying to define the high level fighter, with this mechanic, they can define themselves

 

[FrogReaver]

I had an epiphany last night, which is actually an old idea. One of the fighters issue is flexibility, he is always going to suffer versus casters that have so many tools for the job, or can change their tools day to day.

So the solution, we give the fighter flexibility in an area it’s been known for since 3e...feats.

Adaptive Style

Choose a feat from the following list (covers the initial core feats we want to include) plus any feat with the adaptive keyword (covers new feats in the advanced book).

As a bonus action, the fighter changes this feat with another applicable one. He cannot change the feat again until after a short rest.


so now, a fighter faces flying enemies? He takes a feat to help ranged or thrown attacks.

facing a super domination wizard? Take resilient on wisdom saves or maybe mage slayer.

suddenly dropped in a super hot plane? Take the new advanced endurance feat That mimics an endure elements effect.


our high level fighter now can choose the right tool for the job when he needs it. Further we don’t have to create special abilities or stances or xyz...we simply augment a system that already exists (feats).

while it may not be ah equal to magic, this gives the fighter a lot of flexibility in a mundane space, using a tool players are well familiar with and already commonly associate the fighter with.

Its super simple and yet super powerful

instead of trying to define the high level fighter, with this mechanic, they can define themselves

I like the idea but I’m afraid it doesn’t really solve things. If feats were greatly expanded though... might help.

not an option I’m opposed to adding either though.

 

[Garthanos]

And, if we can take all of Arthur's power and say "this was because of his magic item" and "This was just the magic of being King" then none of that works for a Fighter. Because it ends up being tied to kinghood and artifacts.

Oh definitely the source material is ambiguous at best and broad, I generally argue these characters can be validly built many ways. And for example about where the power came from? indeed is that a maneuver where he exploited a situation to redirect sunlight to the eyes or an item bursting forth light once at the beginning of the fight? Either might be cool if you have an elaborate set of maneuvers for a fighter. A recent movie put Arthurs power in both self and his artifact. With high elements of mastermind rogue mixed with a sword monk quite different.

A high fantasy version of Arthur might go with his sources of Training Merlin arguably a Druid/Bard and Ector a Knight (Fighter/Paladin)

A bit more realistic and we get a Warlord. (still fantasy but less blatant)

Plenty of possibilities.

 

[Garthanos]

Is the magic of being a King specific to Fighters, or if my Cleric became King would he gain the same powers?

I kind of know the 4e answer it might be a mixture of multiple sources Themes/Paragon/Epic destinies for that active kings magic and various types of martial practices/rituals in 4e land achievable by multiple classes. And of course Feats.

 

[Garthanos]

I like the idea but I’m afraid it doesn’t really solve things. If feats were greatly expanded though... might help.

not an option I’m opposed to adding either though.

I expect Level Up will have a few more of those

 

[CapnZapp]

Since this is posted in the Level Up subforum, the vision of the high level fighter is that he can go toe to toe with the most powerful monsters in the Monster Manual.

That is, 99% of the discussion is wildly off topic for a game explicitly compatible with 5E.

This just isn't the game where you redefine what a Fighter is.

This is where you get to roughly the same power level as a level 20 Fighter, except you're given more interesting design choices along the way.