What is this Irresistible Metamagic Feat from Kalamar all about?

[Edena_of_Neith]

Edena_of_Neith here.
I have heard they released an Irresistible Spell Feat in Kingdoms of Kalamar.
Can someone give me the generals on how that works?

For example, can I make a Disintegrate spell Irresistible, so there is no saving throw for it?

Does the Sudden Metamagic Feat stack with the Irresistible Spell Feat anywhere? (I keep hearing you can somehow pull off the combo with the Divine Metamagic Feat, but how would you do that?)

Because, obviously, if I can start making spells of my repetoire Irresistible and Sudden (such as, a Disintegrate spell would still be 6th level and allow no saving throw) then Houston, We Have A Problem.

Edena_of_Neith

 

[Jack Simth]

Let's see... from the hearsy I can dig up on Google in a few minutes, it would appear to be a +4 metamagic feat that makes things Saving Throw: None.

Broken rather badly.

So I can have a Silent, Stilled, Irresistable Charm Person for a 7th level spell slot? Ouch.

Ah, and it's listed in the Crystal Keep PDF's.... two feat requirements, caster level 7, adds +4 to the spell level, removes the saving throw.

So yes, you couldn't have an Irresistable Disintigrate pre-epic. But an Irresistable Charm Person? An Irresistable Magic Jar? An Irresistable Baelful Polymorph? An Irresistable Dominate Person? An Irresistable Phantasmal Killer? Or for a Cleric, how about an Irresistable Slay Living?

Yeah, um, no game balance here.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

talk about helpless

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Ok, but what about the Instant Metamagic Feats. Don't they remove that +4 requirement?

 

[Evil Monkey]

Ok, but what about the Instant Metamagic Feats. Don't they remove that +4 requirement?

I think all of the Sudden metamagic feats are specific feats (Sudden Enlarge, Sudden Maximize, etc.). I can't recall there being a generic "Sudden Metamagic" feat, although there is a variant for that in Unearthed Arcana, I believe.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I have heard there is a clerical feat (but not allowed for wizards) called Divine Metamagic.
Apparently it allows the cleric to burn turning attempts, in return for her not having to pay in spell levels for a specific metamagic feat.
Thus the cleric could take Divine Metamagic - Irresistible Spell, and get the Irresistible Spell Feat by burning turning attempts (a number of turning attempts burned for each casting of an Irresistible spell, versus a spell that allows a saving throw.)

So, the cleric could cast Slay Living or Harm, at their normal levels, by using Divine Metamagic and Irresistible Spell in combination, and burning turning attempts?

My characters don't want to meet such a cleric (or druid) as an opponent, thank you very much.

So, where do the the wizard and the sorcerer get in on this great deal?
Is there a Sudden Spell variant in Unearthed Arcana that allows the wizard to bypass the +4 spell level requirement, as Divine Metamagic allows the cleric to do?

 

[Evil Monkey]

You are correct regarding Divine Metamagic. A cleric with Divine Metamagic and Irresistible Spell could burn 5 turn attempts to cast an Irresistible Slay Living at its normal level. Many people think Divine Metamagic is a broken feat, but I haven't experienced it in play so who knows?

The spontaneous metamagic variant in UA can be used by any spellcaster. There are two ways the variant can be used, both of which require the use of higher-level slots in one manner or another. If you're interested in more, go here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spontaneousMetamagic.htm

 

[Thanee]

Divine Metamagic is in Complete Divine and allows to trade in turn attempts in order to spontaneously apply a metamagic feat you know and that is specified when you learn Divine Metamagic without the level increase.

There are a few metamagic feats out there which in combination with Divine Metamagic produce rather broken results... Persistent Spell, even Quicken Spell, and this Irresistible Spell would just top things off.

That's completely crazy.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Corsair]

Divine metamagic is its own specific problem. (Which is exacerbated by nightsticks, but they themselves are not a problem on their own)

I actually have the same problem with sudden metamagic. They both break the level cap for spells. (and recently our party fought some NPC cultists who all had sudden maximize. It is VERY powerful for NPC casters, because most of them won't see a second battle with the PCs anyways.)

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Divine Metamagic is in Complete Divine and allows to trade in turn attempts in order to spontaneously apply a metamagic feat you know and that is specified when you learn Divine Metamagic without the level increase.

There are a few metamagic feats out there which in combination with Divine Metamagic produce rather broken results... Persistent Spell, even Quicken Spell, and this Irresistible Spell would just top things off.

That's completely crazy.

Bye
Thanee

A Quickened, Irresistible, Slay Living? (Ok, all you players out there, You Have Been Warned: Leave the nice Evil Cleric ALONE. )

I looked at the Variant Rules (thank you, Evil Monkey.)
So, a 7th level wizard (the minimum, it seems, to take Irresistible Spell) can take Daily Metamagic, then throw 3 Irresistible spells of 0 level each day. (In other words, 3 really nasty cantrips.)
A 9th level wizard could throw 3 Irresistible 1st level spells each day, such as 3 charm person spells, with Daily Metamagic. (That doesn't sound powerful, but charm person with no saving throw, 3 times, at 9th level? A normal 9th level wizard could have done this once (1 5th level slot) and that would have meant an instant kill against you ... this multiplies the factor by 3.)

I seem to remember that at one time, wizards could use Divine Metamagic with their Arcane Spells. That must have proved interesting ...

EDIT: Ok, so a 17th level wizard could throw 9th level spells, and thus make any spell of 5th level or below Irresistible. With the Daily Metamagic variant, they could cast 3 spells of 5th level or below as Irresistible without pre-memorizing them as such, per Daily Metamagic Feat taken.
So the 17th level wizard cannot throw an Irresistible Disintegrate, since it's 6th level to start with. But she could throw an Irresistible Cloudkill, Magic Jar, Chaos, or other goodness of that ilk, right?