As others have said, it's +4 levels to remove the save from a spell. It's quite broken, but it's also 3rd-party, 3.0 material. Kenzer and Company got a license from WotC to use the D&D logo and make Kalamar an "official dungeons & dragons world", but it's not actually WotC material. Whether that matters will vary from game to game, of course, but most groups seem to at least require explicit DM approval for non-WotC sources.Edena_of_Neith said:
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What is this Irresistible Metamagic Feat from Kalamar all about?
- Thread starter Edena_of_Neith
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Thanee
First Post
Yep, even without any sudden stuff, the +4 modifier is already broken. You surely do not want a 6th-level irresistible Tasha's Hideous Laughter or the above-mentioned 8th-level irresistible Phantasmal Killer and stuff like that thrown around.
Irresistible Spell, if you were to actually allow such a feat, should have a +8 metamagic modifier, I'd say.
That would be remotely balanced.
If you are worried about breaking the spell level cap, then just use this general house rule:
When you apply a metamagic feat, that does not increase the level of the spell directly (i.e. via Sudden Metamagic, Divine Metamagic, Instant Metamagic, metamagic rods, etc), you can only use it on a spell with a level equal to the highest level you can normally cast minus the metamagic modifier of the *regular* metamagic feat the one in question is based on (i.e. Maximize Spell is +3, so Sudden Maximize could only be used on a 2nd-level spell at most, if the highest spell you can cast is 5th level).
Bye
Thanee
Irresistible Spell, if you were to actually allow such a feat, should have a +8 metamagic modifier, I'd say.
That would be remotely balanced.
If you are worried about breaking the spell level cap, then just use this general house rule:
When you apply a metamagic feat, that does not increase the level of the spell directly (i.e. via Sudden Metamagic, Divine Metamagic, Instant Metamagic, metamagic rods, etc), you can only use it on a spell with a level equal to the highest level you can normally cast minus the metamagic modifier of the *regular* metamagic feat the one in question is based on (i.e. Maximize Spell is +3, so Sudden Maximize could only be used on a 2nd-level spell at most, if the highest spell you can cast is 5th level).
Bye
Thanee
Edena_of_Neith
First Post
Well nuts, if you are going with 3rd party material (if Kalamar is 3rd party) you might as well go with the original Divine Metamagic, which allowed you to modify Arcane Spells by burning Turning Attempts (for the enterprising 9th level wizard / 1st level cleric in the world.)
In a game like that, wizards and clerics (and variants) are going to reign supreme. It's Netheril all over again, even without the 10th level and 11th level spells.
But then again, we now get into those fighter/bard/barbarian/paladin/scout/monk / wizard/cleric/sorcerer/druid variants, and ... well ... ok, it's messy.
I said it before, and will say it again: think Knightmare Chess, and you can't go wrong.
In a game like that, wizards and clerics (and variants) are going to reign supreme. It's Netheril all over again, even without the 10th level and 11th level spells.
But then again, we now get into those fighter/bard/barbarian/paladin/scout/monk / wizard/cleric/sorcerer/druid variants, and ... well ... ok, it's messy.
I said it before, and will say it again: think Knightmare Chess, and you can't go wrong.
Edena_of_Neith
First Post
Thanee said:Irresistible illusions are also interesting...
Bye
Thanee
I remember illusions from 1st edition, and what THAT got into. They offered what I thought was a reasonable fix in 2nd edition, but somehow things still got pretty wild.
But an Irresistible Spectral Force? (to use the 2nd edition spell) That would be wild. I could see things going stir-crazy with two wizards throwing Irresistible Spectral Force armies at each other's camps ...
Edena_of_Neith
First Post
Thanee said:That only worked on the wizards CO boards, I'd think.
Bye
Thanee
The what? I'm not familiar with the CO boards.
I remembering hearing someone, on ENWorld, commenting - long ago - that everyone in their group took one level of cleric, though, and now I know why ...
EDIT: (grins evilly at the thought of Mr. Epic Vile Cleric throwing an Irresistible Apocalypse From the Sky upon the hapless Campaign World.)
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Someone
Adventurer
Edena_of_Neith said:A Quickened, Irresistible, Slay Living? (Ok, all you players out there, You Have Been Warned: Leave the nice Evil Cleric ALONE.)
Even better, some domain must have Phantasmal Killer. An Irresistible, Quickened phantasmal killer would be something like this:
"BOO!"
"ARGH!" *gurgle*
