What is your LEAST favorite setting?

[scadgrad]

Forgotten Realms...

For any number of reasons...

Far too much magic & too many ill-concieved fantastical elements. I like my game settings to have more in common with fantasy literature (if you can call it that) than Diablo or Evercrack. Every tavern in every major city in the Realms looks like the cantina scene out of Star Wars. How in the name of all that's holy does a setting have umpteen million sentient races? The mind boggles. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a frickin' Drow and about half of 'em it seems are 'good' PC types. <yawn> Does anyone know where the Acme Magic Item factory is located in the Forgotten Realms?

Still, give the Devil his due, the 3e FRCS book is stunning.

Other thoughts...

Dragonlance isn't even close for me, but maybe it's because I actually enjoyed it. I do have strong dislike for Gully Dwarves though.

Dark Sun was ruined for me by the ridiculous stats that PCs have. I shudder to think what 3e Dark Sun Fighters will look like. The huge amount of Brom illustrations in the original products was a big plus.

Someone actually doesn't like Al Quadim...wow. I love that setting. It seems pretty harmless to me.

Personally I love Ravenloft, but realize that it's clearly not for the faint of heart. I'm surprised to see no one expressing extreme dislike for it. It seems so much like the Evil Anti-Realms

 

[johnnygolastly]

Re: Forgotten Realms...

For any number of reasons...

Far too much magic & too many ill-concieved fantastical elements. I like my game settings to have more in common with fantasy literature (if you can call it that) than Diablo or Evercrack. Every tavern in every major city in the Realms looks like the cantina scene out of Star Wars. How in the name of all that's holy does a setting have umpteen million sentient races? The mind boggles. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a frickin' Drow and about half of 'em it seems are 'good' PC types.

if they are good PC types, then surely they are in others campaigns, which means you shouldnt be affected.

<yawn> Does anyone know where the Acme Magic Item factory is located in the Forgotten Realms?

the red wizards of thay

Still, give the Devil his due, the 3e FRCS book is stunning.

i agree

Other thoughts...

Dragonlance isn't even close for me, but maybe it's because I actually enjoyed it. I do have strong dislike for Gully Dwarves though.

i agree totally

Dark Sun was ruined for me by the ridiculous stats that PCs have. I shudder to think what 3e Dark Sun Fighters will look like. The huge amount of Brom illustrations in the original products was a big plus.

Someone actually doesn't like Al Quadim...wow. I love that setting. It seems pretty harmless to me.

Personally I love Ravenloft, but realize that it's clearly not for the faint of heart. I'm surprised to see no one expressing extreme dislike for it. It seems so much like the Evil Anti-Realms

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

Re: Forgotten Realms...

For any number of reasons...

Far too much magic

Show me something that says it's any more than a core d&d campaign.

& too many ill-concieved fantastical elements.

Like what?

I like my game settings to have more in common with fantasy literature (if you can call it that) than Diablo or Evercrack.

Nothing in the Realms seems even close to either of those games to me.

Every tavern in every major city in the Realms looks like the cantina scene out of Star Wars. How in the name of all that's holy does a setting have umpteen million sentient races?

Huh? Dwarves, elves, gnomes, and humans make an umpteen million? What does FR have that other settings don't? About the only other race I can think of in FR is the genasi, but they're so rare as to barely even count.

The mind boggles. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a frickin' Drow

Maybe in the Underdark...

and about half of 'em it seems are 'good' PC types. <yawn>

Only if you have boring players.

Does anyone know where the Acme Magic Item factory is located in the Forgotten Realms?

Nowhere. There aren't any more magic items in the Forgotten Realms than in any other setting. The Thayvians make a bit of cash selling potions and scrolls and such, but other than that I don't know what you're talking about. Hell, Drizzt is like a 19th level character and he only has a couple of +3 swords. Most players would whine forever if they had so few magic items at that point.

Still, give the Devil his due, the 3e FRCS book is stunning.

Agreed.

Dark Sun was ruined for me by the ridiculous stats that PCs have. I shudder to think what 3e Dark Sun Fighters will look like. The huge amount of Brom illustrations in the original products was a big plus.

I never played in Dark Sun, but it was my understanding from reading the rules that PCs died an awful lot, so those high stats were needed. Hell, the rules suggested having a "character tree" so you'd have backup characters for one the old ones got eaten.

Someone actually doesn't like Al Quadim...wow. I love that setting. It seems pretty harmless to me.

I never got a chance to play in that either, but the rulebooks were pretty well-done.

 

[Piratecat]

You dislike a product because of an aspect of its adverts?

What a mental midget, marketting people wish more of the world was like you.

If you feel the need to personally insult someone, walk away from the keyboard. It's pretty much that simple. If you feel offended enough to take it personally when someone else doesn't like something, then maybe you should cut down on caffeine, but please don't express your displeasure here. Personal insults are not cool.

There are lots of folks here I disagree with - I love Planescape, for instance, and think Al Qadim is great. But everyone has an opinion, and it's no skin off of my nose if people disagree with me about a setting.

Incidentally (and to stay on topic), Mystara drives me nuts. I have no interest in gaming there - doofy politics, dumb monsters.

 

[Zappo]

I voted Dragonlance. First of all, it's ultimately Yet Another Generic Fantasy.

Secondly, there's not much to do beyond the modules. Mostly because there's not much detail beyond the modules. The boxed set contains a huge lot of info about everything that is touched by the books, and zero about the rest. Who the hell cares about the map for the Perechon?!? Or about full stats for every incredibly minor and irrelevant NPC in the books? Give me some text about nations that aren't Solamnia, Qualinost, Silvanost, Thorbardin or Takhisis' domain, instead - from the manual, it feels like all the nations except those are completely irrelevant and undeserving of more than a single short paragraph. Bupu the gully dwarf has full stats, but if you want to know something about the ruler of Mithas, you get something like "10th level LE minotaur fighter, irascible and mean". Every square inch of Solace is mapped, but if you want info on the capital city of any given nation save Palanthas and Sanction, the best you get is a three lines desc. The map that comes with the boxed set has a few hundreds places with very interesting names marked, ruins, portals, and even "special mystical places", and there's not a single reference about any of them in the whole set, so the only thing you have is the name. Naah...

BTW, sincere question: the Knights of the Sword get lots of cleric spells, while the Knights of the Rose only get a lousy bonus against fear and need much more XP to level (this was 2e). Why should someone become Rose when he can stay Sword, gain levels faster, fight just as well, and cast cleric spells up to 7th level too?

 

[scadgrad]

not to start an argument...

OK here goes...

Show me something that says it's any more than a core d&d campaign.

Well how about Wild Magic for starters? Channeling Spellfire? Elven High Magic? Rune Magic? Portals everywhere. The fact that many PCs can & do start the game with several magic items due to Regional feats etc.

IMO it has quite a bit more than the bog standard game & from reading the book I thought that was the point. FRCS p6 "Toril is steeped in magic. It permeates the entire world."

Like what?

Well the Portals, Elminster, Drizz't & other Godlike characters, dozens of PC races, countless Gods... I could go on & on.

In short is there anything NOT present (in terms of classic fantasy cliches) in the Realms?

Nothing in the Realms seems even close to either of those games to me.

Maybe it's just the FR campaign's I've been privy to. JMO, but it seems like a Computer Game world.

Huh? Dwarves, elves, gnomes, and humans make an umpteen million? What does FR have that other settings don't? About the only other race I can think of in FR is the genasi, but they're so rare as to barely even count.

Uh...OK let's see...
3 different subraces of Dwarves
2 types of Gnomes
no less than 5 different Elves, including Drow
a Half Drow
3 types of Halflings
6 different Planetouched

Those are just the PC approved races.

Maybe in the Underdark...

Or in every other PC party at MLGS. Seriously, I can't remember the last time I heard an FR player crowing about his 'human' character.

Nowhere. There aren't any more magic items in the Forgotten Realms than in any other setting. The Thayvians make a bit of cash selling potions and scrolls and such, but other than that I don't know what you're talking about. Hell, Drizzt is like a 19th level character and he only has a couple of +3 swords. Most players would whine forever if they had so few magic items at that point.

Sorry but in a world where many PCs start the game with either a free masterwork weapon or a free scroll/potion or two, the evidence isn't on your side. Again I thought that was part of the appeal of the FRCS. As always though your results may vary...

Oh Meepo, by the way...how are things back at the Old Sunless Citadel since that plucky group of adventurers left? Is your little dragon buddy still growing?

 

[Nightfall]

Well not as much SL hatred as I thought. C-Cow, well wonder if it's me that's get's on your nerves or just the setting in general?

 

[Phowett]

Vote spelljammer.

I do not like the idea of D&D being in space.

 

[Renshai]

quote]
Well how about Wild Magic for starters? Channeling Spellfire? Elven High Magic? Rune Magic? Portals everywhere. The fact that many PCs can & do start the game with several magic items due to Regional feats etc.
[/quote]

What kind of world do you play in, one that never creates anything new or builds off the existing paradigm of Dungeons and Dragons? Does your imagination have end at what was presented in the Core Rulebooks?

The fact here is that the Forgotten Realms is the ONLY official game setting published by WotC, the people that brought you the very game itself. The including of Spellfire, Elven High Magic, Rune Magic and Portals only serve to expand on the game that has been presented. Each of these additions does nothing other than add interesting and magical new things for the player characters to discover and interact with.

You like to make your point by talking about characters starting with magic items, but have you “really” looked at the rules? Most of them are Potions or Scrolls, one shot items at best. They don’t unbalance or throw the entire fabric of reality out of whack. What is wrong with a character starting off with a masterwork weapon? How many times has a player wanted to start by inheriting one his family heirlooms? The inclusion of the Regional Starting equipment only serves to advance role-playing, not unbalance play as FR detractors like to stomp their feat about so much. Show a little bit of imagination and it becomes obvious that even those minor rules offer a lot.

IMO it has quite a bit more than the bog standard game & from reading the book I thought that was the point. FRCS p6 "Toril is steeped in magic. It permeates the entire world."

Again, what is wrong with a world that is steeped in magic? The largest section of the Dungeons and Dragons Player’s Handbook is a section of magic and spells. Magic is steeped in the game itself and the Forgotten Realms does a good job of presenting itself in the game. I am much more likely to be interested in a forest that might contain some Portal to a far off place than I would be in just another old forest filled with orcs and kobolds…

The point I’m trying to make here is a lot of Forgotten Realms detractors seem to be hanging on to some strange paradigm that defines what a D&D world should be in their eyes. They fail to see that the people who actually make the game see the Forgotten Realms as what a Dungeons and Dragons Campaign Setting is, based of the rules that were presented in the Core Books.

I have trouble believing that people who run Home Brew worlds don’t have some strange form of mystical magic that is different from the norm. Does this make them a bad setting? Nope, it makes them interesting, just like spellfire, rune magic and the other unique magics of the Realms help make it more interesting, at least to most people.

Well the Portals, Elminster, Drizz't & other Godlike characters, dozens of PC races, countless Gods... I could go on & on.

What do you have against portals? They only serve as a means to end for the Dungeon Master and his plots… see my comments above.

Godlike characters? What exactly is wrong with this? I can accept that other people don’t like characters over 20th level…. But the fact is that they do exist, and they would have existed for a very long time in the standard Dungeons and Dragons game. 9th level spells and ancient magic swords didn’t create themselves… Those characters don’t detract from the setting at all. They are examples of heroes in the setting and have very little bearing on what happens in the Dungeon Master’s game. If they interfere with the PCs game then the DM is at fault for that… not the setting, or the inclusion of the NPC.

In short is there anything NOT present (in terms of classic fantasy cliches) in the Realms?

Actually no. A lot of people like it that way. I can run just about any type of game I want in one setting... I don’t find that to be a bad thing.

Maybe it's just the FR campaign's I've been privy to. JMO, but it seems like a Computer Game world

Perhaps it is. A setting can provide a good canvas for the Dungeon Master to work with, but in the end the game is only as good as the DM makes it.

Uh...OK let's see...
3 different subraces of Dwarves
2 types of Gnomes
no less than 5 different Elves, including Drow
a Half Drow
3 types of Halflings
6 different Planetouched

Those are just the PC approved races.

What is wrong with having such a wide array of races? Look at the wide variety of races and cultures in our own world. Why would it be different to have so many offshoots in a fantasy world?

Or in every other PC party at MLGS. Seriously, I can't remember the last time I heard an FR player crowing about his 'human' character.

That sounds like a problem with the players. Ask my players about their human characters and they will crow for hours… I’ve heard them. In fact, I can’t remember the last time someone even asked to play a Drow. I’ve had a Fire Genasi and a Tiefling, and they players always worked closely with me to see how they would interact with the areas of the setting they were playing in.

Sorry but in a world where many PCs start the game with either a free masterwork weapon or a free scroll/potion or two, the evidence isn't on your side. Again I thought that was part of the appeal of the FRCS. As always though your results may vary...

Again, see my comments above. Try to look at the newly presented options/rules using your “roleplaying eyes” and you will see a lot of great things to explore.

Ren

 

[Renshai]

Nightfall,

I love Scarred Lands... but it wasn't quite enough to bring me away from the Realms after all. However, I do support the setting by buying every product they produce... I'm sure I'll run there someday.

Ren