What kind of setting "fluff" do YOU want to see in an RPG?

[steeldragons]

I homebrew and improvise a lot. For this reason, most detailed setting information is worse than useless for me - not only I won't use it, I will also contradict it quite often and confuse players who read the setting book.

If you homebrew and the detail is there, why not/can't you pick and choose what you want to use...contradict it if you like. No law against imagination. There's no "Setting" police to barge in and say "Hey, you're not using this right!"

I don't need more than one, general map. I don't need demographics. I don't need cities, towns and vilages described with NPCs who live there. I don't need detailed history and structure of each power group.

You don't...But see, here's what I've been waiting to see. No setting can/will be all things to all people. YOU don't need it...or want it...but maybe other GMs do...and that doesn't make their style of play any worse...or better...than yours. But the architect of a particular world setting can't possibly know what information is useful to you (or anyone else) and what's not...so where's the harm in including it for those that may want it?

I will say, you homebrew so much (which I definitely admire, it's my preference as well), why wouldn't you just create your own setting? That's what I did/am doing. I had/have a vision of the world I want my characters [i.e. the characters in the world, not literally MY characters though they are certainly in that world as well. so I started creating it. Making room as I went along to try to accommodate people's ideas and desires.

Now, I have a world that includes, I think, a lot of interesting different regions and history, cultures and religions, but kept plenty of "open space" and "wild areas" where adventure could be found (or sought out), or other DMs could use as they saw fit...but it may appear, to others, "too detailed" or "not detailed enough." And that's, at least in a general way, where I (and I'm guessing the OP whose thread I seem to have highjacked...hahaha. Sorry Smoss. ) am trying to get to.

What I need is inspiration. From all the setting data, give me only the interesting parts - I will fill the blanks myself.

Well, there's that "fine line". What are the "interesting parts"? What are the "blanks"? Where should they be? And how can one know what constitutes "interesting" for you versus the guy next door?

I need numbers, positions and names much less than the general feeling of the setting as a whole, of various regions and places, of various cultures.

And where is the line that goes from "general feeling" to "too much"? How can a setting give you what your asking for (which is what I would want to do developing a campaign setting) without detailing "various regions and places...various cultures"?

Here, take a look at this, http://www.enworld.org/forum/5252453-post2.html and this http://www.enworld.org/forum/5253314-post6.html

Is this too much, too little? Does this fire the imagination or choke it? I honestly don't know...and as I've said, that "fine line" is in a different place for everyone.

I also like to have a lot of art in setting books. Not random art, not heroes in dramatic poses. Art that is coherent in style and that shows what is described in text. Show me this monster, show me this city, show me the Emperor's throne room and his masked royal guard. A picture is worth a thousand words.

No arguments here. I'll take a half page of text describing things that can't be conveyed in pictures with a big ole illustration any time. (Besides being a very visual person and an illustrator myself I'll definitely be including a lot of images if/when I get to a point to put a book/package together.

--Steel Dragons

 

[MortonStromgal]

1. Maps
2. A fully flushed out City
3. Ecology
4. Brief Descriptions of surrounding areas
5. Plot ideas

 

[Zelda Themelin]

Yes steeldragons, you summed up things nicely. Quite a lot of information is ok for setting I actually use. But I never end up using whole setting as written.

Well, I did Scarred Lands until splat books which pretty much ruined/ignored many things already said (I guess freelanders didn't want to do much reading or were too keen on changing things), and eventually went on ignoring basic theme.

This is not something someone publishing world slowly in more detail should do. There should be internal intact logic, that doesn't crack all the time some. If you want to change things, write adventures, where plots give players possibiltiy to particiapte in those chances or stop them from happening.


What comes to idea mining, we usually only want best parts of the world, in gazetter style, but bit more focus on interesting things. Also having like I said before some economy would mean it at least fills holes that game system leaves there.
My players always end up hiring help, buying boat, house, buiding fortress, hiring small army. There is some pricing in D&D for these sort of thigns, but quite lacking in options.


I usually get interested only in certain things when reading some potential campaing to use/idea mine. Mythology and gods. For me this is very important. If I like it (like Scarredl lands/Twin Crowns/Outbound/Greyhawk) or don't (like Eberron for maybe-non-real-gods or Kalamar for general boringness) affects whatever I will ever care to play in that world. Just my thingie though.

Then I want to have have world map in color, preferable separete sheet. Preferable not copying Earth every damn time (often badly). There are other planets out there if you want scientic model.


Then I like to have some short version of lands and people, and their general outlook, preferable with pictures.

Then I want to know world's short timeline (mind you short), and then what is going on right know. And I prefer that be something intresting. Places in the world should be in brink of some minor and some major interesting events. And not all those events should be of type that changes the world/country. And changes shouldn't be be fated. Its better if setting info gives few different takes what could happen and if so, how it would affect some things.

I am also bed up with fantasy-earth. I want something different. It can be human-focused, but it doesn't have to be fantasy-europe, fantasy-japan, fantasy etc. Yep, I like Golarion for many things and detest if for this. Sure creators of the world love it, and yes, it's safe and many like it. Still I don't think I am alone in this.

But I regognize why many world builders fall for this. It's easy, and mostly neutral choice. It's worse sin in for most people is, that it's been done before, so it's boring. Some more original ides for cultures and history take dive into great unknown land of various preferancs. Your ideas might end up be really liked or really uncool.

And people who actually sell their books for living, don't often like to take such a big risk.
We who only create this sfuff for fun, and get our money from some other jobs, can do what we like.

I am hoping to run into someone else making my ideal setting. I don't have that much time nowdays, and work drains my imagination. I need outside inspiration. But since my own imagination is so "awesome to me", I am quite critical on what I will dm.

 

[Zelda Themelin]

If you homebrew and the detail is there, why not/can't you pick and choose what you want to use...contradict it if you like. No law against imagination. There's no "Setting" police to barge in and say "Hey, you're not using this right!"

Lol, I've seen setting police enough they come disguised as real people. Sometimes I even play with them, very cunning imagination banning force.

As to reading setting books, I hate it when I have to contradict all the time. I become argumental toward ides of creator and some things in setting with stated attitudes bother me. I react with emotion toward things I like/dislike. And if setting has some things, usually those devils in detail. Speaking of devils, I really got pissed about Golarion's Asmodeus supposed misogynic attitude. Mainly because it made no sense, because that kinda attitude should have affected many things more than it did. And didn't affect much not even the priesthood stuff.


Ok I am especially allergic to mythological "fail".


More power to those who can actually read do material they have contradicting opinions and stay happy.

I think I should enjoy reading source material, and it should inspire my imagination and not make me want to desperately change something. And unfortune thing wtih "setting truths " is that they keep coming back in next setting books.

These things don't bother even me if I don't intend to use setting at all, just cool bits of it from here and there for my homebrew. I just happen to like using some setting as my homebrew and I will end up using quite lot of it, and then ignoring my pet peaves becomes very hard.

Maybe because I like to include my thoughts, not edit out theirs.

 

[steenan]

And where is the line that goes from "general feeling" to "too much"? How can a setting give you what your asking for (which is what I would want to do developing a campaign setting) without detailing "various regions and places...various cultures"?

Here, take a look at this, http://www.enworld.org/forum/5252453-post2.html and this http://www.enworld.org/forum/5253314-post6.html

Is this too much, too little? Does this fire the imagination or choke it? I honestly don't know...and as I've said, that "fine line" is in a different place for everyone.

It is both too much and too little.

In the race descriptions there are a precious few sentences that tell me how to play given race. One race is arrogant, another always keeps its words. And that's all, in the long text with multiple paragraphs about each race. I get heights, histories, politics (as in "what these kingdoms do"). But I still have no idea how to play my character so that it's clear that I'm a Grinlian and not a Tankuan when I'm not in my country.

A great example of race description done right is a Polish game Crystalicum. Each race gets a few paragraphs, but, what is most important, each also gets three short sidebars - and these three sidebars are enough to play. First one contains five reasons for a member of this race to join an adventuring party. Second one gives five guidelines for roleplaying (like "Never speak lies. Lies are a tool of the weak." or "Underestimate your own strength. Be surprised by how much stronger you are than people you meet."). The last one lists five interesting character concepts that use this race.

The places in the other post are described better than the races, IMO, but still not very well. Towerton is good - the description focuses on an important trait that nobody visiting the town could miss; a trait that defines the style of the place. On the other hand, Bluside and East Embrar have nothing interesting in their two paragraphs, nothing that would make me place an adventure there and nothing that would be memorable if I did.

Once again, an example of description done right: look how the cities are described in Exalted core book. For me, the descriptions could be shorter. But what is important is that it describes interesting places. Halta, where everybody lives in and on the trees, because whatever and whoever touches ground is lost to the fair folk. Chiorascuro, built on ancient ruins, with towers of unbreakable glass. Gem, built in a volcano, with its central market in an underground cavern. I may improvise an unlimited number of typical cities and villages - the setting book gives me what I could not think about.

 

[steeldragons]

Thanks for taking a look and the pointers.

Just, in answer to your question, if you were a Tankuan, you'd be an average of 6" taller than a Grinlian...and dark skinned. People would notice you as a Tankuan from two blocks away. A Grinlian to a Mostralian...that'd be more difficult but would basically be noticeable by coloring (hair/eye) and accent...but I see your point.

As to how you would play them...I never really thought a player would want to be told how to play a character...their personality, to me, was always up to the player...but I get your meaning as to average cultural standards/attitudes...I can work more on that.

I REALLY like the whole sidebar thing! That's a great idea...not just for the "playing tips" but other assorted facts or figures. I'm pretty sure that'll definitely get incorporated.

And thanks for the comments on the places (glad you liked Towerton). I'll work on making the other locals more interesting. East Embrar definitely needs some attention...haha. It is possibly the area in Grinlia I've given the least thought.

As for Bluside, I really figured the only reason you'd want to use it would be for urban adventures, seeking out a particular item or goods (given that practically the whole city is a market.), you could get jobs as guards on a caravan or ship leaving for who knows where, book passage on a ship to get to...wherever...

Here's the rest of Grinlia: http://www.enworld.org/forum/5253341-post7.html if anyone's interested.

The other lands/realms, people places n' tings can all be perused at your leisure right here on ENworld: http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/284160-orea-world-its-people.html

I welcome any and all comments about any of it. Feel free and thanks.
--SD

 

[kitsune9]

The kind of fluff I like in an rpg setting:

1. Adventures and plot hooks. After describing a region, its players / factions, give me a rumors, adventures, and plot hooks. Give me at least a dozen or so ideas.

2. Maps with descriptions. Looking at a country is nice, but it's too big. I like more smaller maps with just a city or town and the descriptions in those areas. Then follow it with #1 above.

3. Ruins / dungeons /wilderness. Give us a dungeon map, populate a few areas (again, don't need crunch), and give us the secrets / treasures for the area.

4. Campaign secrets, big and small. Give me some mysteries that can drive a campaign or at least a small series of adventures. Spill the beans on those secrets and then give me #1 to how they relate and I'll take it from there.

 

[ourchair]

Scarlett Johanssen.

If she were the full-time fluffer at my games, I believe attendance would be near-perfect.

Near perfect?

What more do you need?

I think perhaps Grace Park/Katee Sackhoff sandwiches and tea would improve attendance drastically.

 

[Shades of Green]

A few things you should consider when writing fluff:

1) Make it original. Or, for the very least, somewhat original. Try to avoid "Fantasy-Earths" or worlds that simply incorporate a large number of D&D tropes without a significant twist. In other words, give DMs a good reason to buy the fluff book rather than to wing something up from the D&D Core Books.

2) Keep it relevant to the game. If it is a fluff book, it should be useful for actual gameplay by actual players. For example, every setting needs a history, but try to keep it as a rough overview focused on pivotal and/or iconic events that shape the game-world and have plot ramifications for the players.

3) Make some place for the PCs in it. Avoid over-powerful NPCs who steal the PCs' spotlight; add as many adventure hooks as possible to your fluff.

 

[jdrakeh]

Somewhere on an old hard drive, I have a (mostly) finished setting that's all leather-clad, chain-wielding warriors speeding across red desert sands on chromium-plated steel horses, murder in their eyes, while tattooed valkyries and heavy metal music rain down from the Far Heavens as hulking giants rise up from Hel, ushering in the Age of Ragnarok.

I want to see more of that.