What kind of spells, if any, may be used in sneak attacks?

[jontherev]

Yeah, but a wizards hit points suck, so it balances out really well.

Not necessarily. A toad gives +2 con. And con is important for wizards, so it wouldn't be absurd for a wizard to drop his second highest stat in con. So, a 10th level wizard could easily have an extra 40+ hits just from con. Not to mention they can craft wondrous items to make that even higher...

 

[kreynolds]

Not necessarily. A toad gives +2 con. And con is important for wizards, so it wouldn't be absurd for a wizard to drop his second highest stat in con. So, a 10th level wizard could easily have an extra 40+ hits just from con. Not to mention they can craft wondrous items to make that even higher...

Uh...yeah...but crafting a wondrous item that raises your Con by +6 would cost you roughly 45,000 gp to make, would count against your wealth as 90,000 gp, and you would have to spend 3,600XP to make it. The crafting of magic items inherently slows down spellcasters leveling. Even a wizard with a 22 Con is going to have a hell of a lot less hit points than any other class with the same Con.

 

[jontherev]

Uh...yeah...but crafting a wondrous item that raises your Con by +6 would cost you roughly 45,000 gp to make, would count against your wealth as 90,000 gp, and you would have to spend 3,600XP to make it. The crafting of magic items inherently slows down spellcasters leveling. Even a wizard with a 22 Con is going to have a hell of a lot less hit points than any other class with the same Con.

Well of course, but my point is that the wizard CAN add to their con more easily than most other classes. I'm saying a wizard is more likely/probable to have a higher con than several other classes. INT is the only must-have for wizards. Most classes have at least 2 stats they need really bad. The toad, no one but the sorceror and wizard can get. And that item would only cost 18000 gp to make, not 45k! Where did you get those numbers? I was just making a point KR. Of course if a fighter and a wizard have the same con, the fighter will have more hits! What was this thread about again?

 

[Uller]

Wow! This thread has been totally hijacked...well may as well jump in with both feet!

For most wizards of this level, the trick is to just avoid being damaged with all the wonderful defensive spells they have and not worry so much about having scads of hitpoints. Maybe for the "Battlemage" type it is a good idea to drop your second best stat into Con...For the run of the mill wizard, Dex or Wisdom seem to be better(or at least as good) choices.

 

[jontherev]

Wow! This thread has been totally hijacked...well may as well jump in with both feet!

For most wizards of this level, the trick is to just avoid being damaged with all the wonderful defensive spells they have and not worry so much about having scads of hitpoints. Maybe for the "Battlemage" type it is a good idea to drop your second best stat into Con...For the run of the mill wizard, Dex or Wisdom seem to be better(or at least as good) choices.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, not saying all wizards should do this...just that it is possible. I figure this thread was actually answered in the first 2 or 3 posts, so the last 4 pages or so have kind of meandered.

 

[Uller]

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, not saying all wizards should do this...just that it is possible. I figure this thread was actually answered in the first 2 or 3 posts, so the last 4 pages or so have kind of meandered.

Oh, I don't care. I'm all for changing subjects when the need arises. It is certainly possible for a wizard to do this and be successful. He could focus his defenses on things other than avoiding taking HP damage, then.

 

[HeavyG]

Nope. Lesser cold orb is a ranged touch attack, just like ray of frost. It's like MM, but it's elemental damage and requires an RTA. Balanced, IMHO.

Are you sure about that ?

IIRC, our wizard's lesser cold orbs have a fortitude save for half damage.

 

[Pielorinho]

Are you sure about that ?

IIRC, our wizard's lesser cold orbs have a fortitude save for half damage.

Ooh! Ooh! Let me stir the pot.

Teacher, if a rog/wizard sneak attacks with a lesser cold orb, and her victim makes the fortitude save, is the sneak attack damage halved?
Daniel

 

[kreynolds]

And that item would only cost 18000 gp to make, not 45k! Where did you get those numbers?

Whoops. I used the wrong calculation!

A magic item that adds +6 to Con (or any other single ability score) has a market price of 36,000 gp, would cost 18,000 gp to make, and you would have to spend 1,440 XP. That is assuming that the magic item takes up a worn item slot. Also, the 36,000 is what counts against your character wealth, not the 18,000.

 

[kreynolds]

I was just making a point KR. Of course if a fighter and a wizard have the same con, the fighter will have more hits!

Also, it doesn't matter what level the fighter and wizard are. Let's say you have a Wiz20 and a Ftr10/Tempest10. Let's see now, the fighter has 10, count them 10, attacks per round (he's high level so he probably has speed weapons). And the wizard can cast 2 spells per round (he's high level too so he probably has a ring of haste). Now, that fighter is going to have a really awesome Fort save (if he was built properly) and he's going to have buttload of hit points. So, sure, 2 delayed blast fireballs per round that deal 20d6 points of damage a pop are pretty nasty, but damn, that fighter has a lot of hit points. And let's not forget that if that very same fighter closes into melee range with the wizard, the wizard is frickin' toast. So, you can't really compare one class to another and leave it at that. You have to consider that the wizard in question will more than likely have 1 fighter with him, 1 cleric with him, and 1 rogue with him, and they are all working together in a party to take down the bad guys. That's where you will find balance or the lack of balance.