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What kind of sword do I have?

Did longswords ever exist?
I'm not sure what your question means. What D&D calls a "longsword" most certainly existed. A later Roman cavalry blade, a Viking blade, and, of course, a Crusading knight's blade all fit the description of a D&D longsword.

Would anyone of the time call it a longsword? Well, they wouldn't even be speaking English in most cases -- and certainly not modern English -- so I'm not sure it matters.

Later scholars would call the D&D longsword a "broadsword" to contrast it with the rapier and its progeny.
 

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Funny, I have a friend who has that exact same sword. He got it in Spain. I've held it, swung it, stabbed it into their hardwood floor (they lived in a dump).

I'd say it's definitely a longsword in 3e terms (if only because there is no broadsword). Unless it's radically different than the one I've seen, I'd say it's a little on the heavy sword for a longsword (because it's case-hardened, rather than tempered steel ~ therefore it has very little "flex"), but that would be good against armored opponents.

What I have is a true bastard sword; it's 4.2 lbs, just heavy enough that it would be difficult to use with one hand, but certainly possible. There is plenty of room on the hilt for 2 hands. I've looked for a picture of it, but they (Atlanta Cutlery, a.k.a., Museum Replicas Limited) don't sell/make it anymore. I love it, but want a lighter one (more like a longsword).
 

mmadsen said:
Would anyone of the time call it a longsword? Well, they wouldn't even be speaking English in most cases -- and certainly not modern English -- so I'm not sure it matters.

Yes, they used, and called them longswords in the 16th century, and I'm guessing much, much sooner. Check out Shakespeare (Romeo & Juliet, for one).
 

Yes, they used, and called them longswords in the 16th century, and I'm guessing much, much sooner. Check out Shakespeare (Romeo & Juliet, for one).
To confuse matters, what was called a longsword was often what D&D calls a "bastard sword", a hand-and-a-half sword.
 

Longswords did exist - but were primarily used from horseback (they needed to be *longer* and lighter than an infantry sword, hence the name longsword).

But even that's not quite right. Like modern day weapons, a 'revolver' can describe a myriad of very different weapons. You could spend a lifetime of study of bladed weapons and still not have an accurate naming convention.

What has been said already about the longsword/broadsword distinction is more or less true. I would support considering it a broadsword, but it could just as easily be called long and still not be incorrect.

As for DnD, I typically consider longswords to have blades that are thinner (1"-1.5" wide), broadswords to have blades that are thicker (1.5" - 2.5" wide), and rapiers, just for comparison, to have blades <1" wide. This is only passably accurate, but then, I play DnD for the fantasy, not for the realism.

(I am a serious sword collector, and amateur ancient weapon history buff, and I study european swordplay, so you know my background.)
 

Tcheb said:
As for DnD, I typically consider longswords to have blades that are thinner (1"-1.5" wide), broadswords to have blades that are thicker (1.5" - 2.5" wide)...

Not to hijack this thread, but what are the D&D stats for a broadsword, if any? I've never seen any... Anyone have any for 3e?
 

For an introduction to the topic, take a look at ARMA's site. From their Medieval & Renaissance Sword Forms and Companion Implements:

Medieval Swords

Medieval swords existed in great varieties over a number of centuries. Both experimentation and specialization in design was constant. But certain common characteristics can describe the "generic" medieval sword as a long, wide, straight, double-edged blade with a simple cross-guard (or "cruciform" hilt). It might be designed for one or two-hands. The typical form was a single hand weapon used for hacking, shearing cuts and also for limited thrusting. This style developed essentially from Celtic, Germanic, Anglo-Saxon, and late Roman (the spatha) forms. The Viking and early Frankish forms (the "spata") are also considered to be more direct ancestors. Medieval swords can be classified (typically by hilt design) into a great many categories by curators, collectors, and military historians. However, students & re-creationists today should prefer the actual historical terms. At the time, long bladed weapons were simply referred to as "swords", or for the longer ones often a "sword of war", "war-sword" (French Espée du Guerre or Epee du Guerre), or even a "long-sword". Various languages might call them by schwert, svard, suerd, swerd, espada, esapadon, or epee. When later worn on the belt by mounted knights they might be called an Arming-sword. Arming-swords were also considered "riding-swords" (also parva ensis or epee courte). It is this single-hand form which is so closely associated with the idea of the "knightly sword" (c. 1300). The challenge of armor in the Age-of-plate, forced many blades (both single-hand and longer) to be made narrower and pointier, but also thicker and more rigid. Ffrom at least the late 1300’s in England, a single-hand blade of this form was referred as a "short swerde". In 15th century Germany it was the Kurczen swert. At this same time, as a result of the increased use of thrusting techniques some blades adopted guards with knuckle-bars, finger-rings, and/or sides-rings which lead to the compound-hilt. In later Elizabethan times, older one-handed medieval type blades became known as "short-swords" while the larger variety were still referred to as "long-swords". The term "short sword" was used later by 19th century collectors to refer to any style of "shorter" one-handed swords typically from ancient times on.

The Broadsword

A term popularly misapplied as a generic synonym for medieval swords or any long, wide military blade. The now popular misnomer "broadsword" in reference to Medieval blades actually originated with collectors in the early 19th century -although many mistranslations and misinterpretations of Medieval literature during the 19th & 20th centuries have inserted the word broadsword in place of other terms. They described swords of earlier ages as being "broader" than their own contemporary thinner ones. Many 17th-19th century blades such as spadroons, cutlasses, and straight sabers are classed as broadswords as are other closed hilt military swords. The weapon known as the true broadsword is in fact a form of short cutlass. The term "broadsword" does not appear in English military texts from the 1570s - 1630s and noes not show up in inventories of sword types from the 1630's, and likely came into use sometime between 1619 and 1630. Descriptions of swords as "broad" before this time are only incidental and the word "broad" is used as an adjective in the same way "sharp" or "large" would be applied. Leading arms curators almost always list the broadsword specifically as a close-hilted military sword from the second half of the 17th century. Those cage and basket hilted blades used by cavalry starting in the 1640's were in form, "broadswords". During this time a gentleman's blade had become the slender small-sword, whereas the military used various cutting blades. Today, arms collectors, museum curators theatrical-fighters, and fantasy-gamers have made the word broadsword a common, albeit blatantly historically incorrect, term for the Medieval sword.

Long-Swords

The various kinds of long bladed Medieval swords that had handles long enough to be used in two hands were deemed long-swords (German Langenschwert/ Langes Swert or Italian spada longa). Long-swords, war-swords, or great swords are characterized by having both a long grip and a long blade. We know at the time that Medieval warriors did distinguished war-swords or great-swords ("grant espees" or "grete swerdes") from "standard" swords in general, but long-swords were really just those larger versions of typical one-handed swords, except with stouter blades. They were "longer swords", as opposed to single-hand swords, or just "swords". They could be used on foot or mounted and sometimes even with a shield. The term war-sword from the 1300's referred to larger swords that were carried in battle. They were usually kept on the saddle as opposed to worn on the belt. A 15th century Burgundian manual refers to both "great and small swords". As a convenient classification, long-swords include great-swords, bastard-swords, and estocs. In the 1200’s in England blunt swords for non-lethal tournaments were sometimes known as "arms of courtesy". There is a reference to an English tournament of 1507 in which among the events contestants are challenged to "8 strookes with Swords rebated". Wooden training weapons were sometimes called wasters in the 1200's or batons in the 1300's and 1400's. Knightly combat with blunt or "foyled" weapons for pleasure was known as à plaisance, combat to the death was à lóuutrance.
 

mmadsen's excerpt from ARMA is pretty spot on (and covers more info than just borad and long swords). Damn, I should have thought to post that! I've read (or skimmed :)) most of the books on their Top Reading List, and I highly suggest

"Arms and Armor of the Medieval Knight"
David Edge and John Miles. Crescent Books, 1988. If you have but one book on the subject this is the one. An unequaled
compilation of superb photos and detailed text on the whole range of weapons and armor of the middle ages. Though it lacks
some detail on the earlier period and on combat, it is by far the best there is to offer.

Apparently, they suggest it to.

For DnD, I use bastard sword and broad sword interrchangably. (The dimensions are about the same in my mind.) Any sword you can use with one hand you can use with two, regardless of how it was designed to be used.
 

Yes, but what you're missing is the time before the Celts, Germans and Roman spatha. All of those can be traced directly back to central asian forms. Some of them had some pretty neat designs, like ring-pommels, and amongst the Germanic peoples, pattern-welded blades. Nothing games mechanic-wise about those, they're mostly decorative.

Boy, I'd love to have a pattern-welded sword. Anyone who knew where to score me one would be life-long pal!
worship.gif

 
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Wolfen Priest said:


Not to hijack this thread, but what are the D&D stats for a broadsword, if any? I've never seen any... Anyone have any for 3e?

Check 1e (definitely) and 2e (possibly)
 

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