What level is "name level" in 3e

[WalkerWhite]

The title says it all. I was wondering what people considered to be "name level" in 3e. For those of you not familiar with the term, it comes from first edition, when all of the character classes had names for each of their levels (the monk being the most infamous in this regard). For example, a fifth level magic-user was a Thaumaturgist. Even though progression could (and did) go above 12th. this name stopped changing anywhere between 9th and 11th (e.g. Any priest above 9th is a High Priest). The level at which the name stopped changing was referred to as name level.

Name level is significant because that is the level in which the character can be considered a "player" on the political scene. Fighters get their keeps, wizards get their towers. It is a reasonable level to retire at, and any campaigns that lasted beyond that point typically shifted from adventuring to politics (or went adventuring multiplanar). Players at name level are not all powerful, but they are rarely the pawns of others any more.

I understand this differs according to player taste and campign-style, but my interest is in synching the old advancement scale with the new one. Otherwise, even though you convert the monsters, characters progress too fast in the larger first edition modules (by factors of 1.5 at the early levels, and factors of 4 at the higher levels). The scale will vary according to whether I identify each level as equivalent (which is not clear, considering the shift in the difficulty class of many higher level monsters) or define two different name levels and scale accordingly.

So, keeping the old adventures in mind, what level do you all think name level is? My current preference (though I can be swayed) is for 12th level. This gives you enough levels to get a prestige class and to get enough levels in the prestige class without being abusive. It is also the sweet-spot level where you get an extra feat and an extra ability point.

 

[Crothian]

WEll, leader ship can be gained at level 6, and name level in the older versions was usually when people got followers. However, I think name level should be around 11th level or a little higher. d20 does a better job of supporting the higher levels unlike the earlier versions, so I'd like to see name level be higher then the earlier editions.

 

[Dagger75]

Level 12 sounds right. That seperates the adventures from the Heroes. Thats the point the clerics are rasing dead, fighters are getting 3 attacks a round, thieves are critical stricking, wizards are maxed out on some of those damage spells and getting up there in power.

 

[hong]

Level 12 sounds right. That seperates the adventures from the Heroes. Thats the point the clerics are rasing dead,

They could have been doing that at 9th level, actually.

fighters are getting 3 attacks a round,

If they're dual-wielding in true 1E/2E style, they could be doing that at 6th level.

 

[Dinkeldog]

This is less Rules-y and more General-y.

 

[the Jester]

I'd say that it comes a little higher since those levels come easier in 3e. You played for years to get above name level in 1e because it took up to 375,000 xp per level to advance a level. Nowadays its one game a week for a year in a half to hit level 20 (if you play xp as written).

I'd say around 15th.

 

[Saeviomagy]

There is no name level in 3rd edition.

Think about it - how many world leaders really trained for years at squad-level combat before they got into politics? So would you say that squad-level tactical knowledge is essential for someone to run a country? No? I didn't think so.

In 3rd edition, 'name level', in terms of becoming a power player with a castle and followers is whenever you damn well want it. It simply doesn't make sense that someone with connections and lots of money (assuming the DM ignores the recommended wealth level tables) shouldn't be able to buy a castle and settle down. Nor does it make sense that an unpopular git with little possessions beyond the armour on his back and the weapon in his hand should be forced to build a castle and maintain a stable of fighting men.

Gone are the days of every ruler having to be a 15th level fighter, just because the rules said so.

 

[GuardianLurker]

Name level was many, many things in OD&D.

Leadership, land, both of these were often tied to "name" level. And both were optional.

But the single most important change, and the only unavoidable one, was the fact that that was the level the class stopped gaining hit dice, and generally stopped receiving major increases in power.
Spellcasting classes were a notable exception.

Name level was also the level where the mechanics started breaking down.

3e does have an equivalent.

Name level in 3e is 20th.

 

[boothbey]

Name Level

I call level 12 (I think it is level 12 at least) name level simply because that is when you can be the subject of a Legend Lore spell.

Until that point you are just a divinatory inert nobody.

 

[Dragongirl]

I agree with what Boothbey says, if for no other reason that I usually force him to agree with what i say so it is a nice change

Plus I thought his answer was cute.