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D&D 5E What Level is the Wizard vs. the Fighter?
- Thread starter DND_Reborn
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and likeing something more or something else later doing better doesn't make the thing worse...
2e bankrupted a company and almost killed D&D... but not many people would call it a failure. 4e failing is a meme not a fact.
it didn't loose. it won.
if your pull the 2nd best pitcher of all time after the 3rd inning and put the best pitcher of all time in his place then win that doesn't make the 2nd best pitcher of all time a failure...
winning a silver medal in the Olympics means you are the second best person in your sport in the world... it is not a fail (I would actually say if you came in dead last place you STILL are not a failure because you ONLY are one of the best in the world and part of a dozen or so best in your country.... but people who can't do 1/100th at your sport will talk smack about you.)
no one at WotC ever even said it was a failure. No ex employee ever said it failed... it is a meme
one of teh funniest moments we had in 3.5 (and more or less right around the time we noticed problems in any major way) was when a new DM (a regular member meet him at work) came in and told us his game was always super deadly, hard mode and gritty. We started at 7th level just because he said he can't run a game where 1st-3rd level PCs don't TPK every session... we thought this odd but made our characters.
7 players (4 of us still play together today) only 1 non caster. He told us without a fighter we were all going to die so someone should draw up a back up.
he told us his 'living' world had been being run since 1982, and he didn't allow some 'new 3e ideas in' but we rolled with it.
game 3 or 4 he was pulling his hair out (not an expression, he would after an encounter went bad for him start to pull at his hair and not understand how we breezed through his encounters).
so we went into his deadliest dungeon... he told us both in and out of game that each level down would get harder it would get. (I think we had hit 8th at this point but we did have some hard fights... and leveled then left. We came back and he told us that magically the creatures on the first level repopulated (and we started making jokes about how fast bug bears breed (must be more like bug rabbits) then we got down to the 2nd level again and not only did the (I can't remember for sure if it was undead there or on 3 but something)
so like he promised more monsters, slightly harder traps (also more treasure cause he rolled randomly for it) and even though it was like a dozen levels deep and we didn't have to one of us said we should go back to town at the 5th or so floor again. we recouped leveled went back and did it again. then we leveled went back and did it again leveled... each time the bug rabbits the undead the gricks all re populated... but one player made the mistake of jokeing about us farming the dungeon until 20th level so he got even madder and made a red dragon move in with the bug bears... and it was a hard fight (then we got the hoard and the xp) one of us died (our paliden at that) so our cleric went to buy a diamond, and he gave us a run around... "Such an expensive diamond is hard to come by" so our wizard plane shifted to the elemental plane of earth and just took a huge diamond from there... and we raised the paladin... went back and there was an older red dragon in the 1st floor with still more bug bears. He go mad when we were HAPPY about this. more xp another hoard randomly rolled....
he stopped running for us and a few months later the guy that brought him to us told us that he had never seen such power gamers and he wanted us to go deeper and deeper, and he was upset that we just kept having fun oing back and forth to his 'rebuilt' dungeons we never hit a 5 minute work day (and most dives were multi session things) but we did for sure pull back when we ran low on spells.
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Sadly, I'm pretty sure a lot of people have no interest in being more cautious.
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Sounds like you were all trying to grief each other.
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
Probably not. 5E fosters the "CHARGE! We fear nothing and will win every battle!" mentality.
It's less that and more that 5E attracted people who expected to march forth into danger because they expected to be able to handle it if they still had resources.
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
With short rest healing, 5E fosters it because they have the resources still...
Also, spells like Revivify make death not so scary IME.
But, this has really nothing to do with the topic of the thread so whatever.
TwoSix
Everyone's literal second-favorite poster
People are already too cautious when they play, we don't need the system incentivizing it further.
You know what you have an unlimited amount of? New character sheets.
not at first... but the more we have a habit of making characters that synergize (and some of the players are/were pretty good min/maxers) so 1 we are playing at a higher then average level of power, and 2 we work together (most of the time). but he kept 'challenging' us that no one survives to high level... like he WANTED to kill us.
edit: for the record it was shortly after this that someone in the group started voiceing the problem that we all were always caster heavy, and people who wanted to play non caster concepts often found themselves talking themselves out of it... it didn't take long for the "angel summoner/BMX bandit" and the understanding of the miss balance. Over the next few years we tried to house rule the game over and over again (until we got to were we just were not using wizard and nerfed druid and cleric, then adding in a bunch of extra classes like Bo9S) however we finally just walked away from D&D to other games... this campaign was not "the straw that broke the camels back" but it was an early straw.
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