What made D&D 'evil'?
- Thread starter Eternalknight
- Start date
Skarp Hedin
First Post
I'd like to agree (ooh! a me-too post!) with the people who've found that the majority of Christians don't seem to have any issues with D&D. Now, as a small and perhaps somewhat entertaining story that goes along with this, I offer the following:
In oh, 1990 or so, I was confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church, which ceremony is performed by the local bishop. So one of my cornball friends who came to the service decides it'll be fun to corner poor old Bishop Marshall (who was an acquaintance of his father's anyhow) afterwards and ask him what he thinks of D&D. His Excellency replied that, as far as he was aware, "there's nothing wrong with it." He did, however, opine that he figured parents should be aware of what their kids were doing so as to make sure nothing bad happened like all that stuff you heard about in the news. This is, I think, good advice anyhow. So there you have it! Official confirmation from the Church of Rome that D&D is okay! From the Bishop of Vermont! He's almost the Pope! Or something very similar!
In oh, 1990 or so, I was confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church, which ceremony is performed by the local bishop. So one of my cornball friends who came to the service decides it'll be fun to corner poor old Bishop Marshall (who was an acquaintance of his father's anyhow) afterwards and ask him what he thinks of D&D. His Excellency replied that, as far as he was aware, "there's nothing wrong with it." He did, however, opine that he figured parents should be aware of what their kids were doing so as to make sure nothing bad happened like all that stuff you heard about in the news. This is, I think, good advice anyhow. So there you have it! Official confirmation from the Church of Rome that D&D is okay! From the Bishop of Vermont! He's almost the Pope! Or something very similar!
Steve Conan Trustrum
Explorer
CrusaderX said:
In reality, my Christian community doesn't do this at all.
Please don't generalize. Generalizing that Christians are anti-D&D makes you no different than those who are generalizing that D&D is "evil" in the first place.
Stereotypes aren't very helpful, no matter where they're coming from.
True, I've run into Christian gamers but I've also had my grandmother, a woman who can only be described as one of those "let's have a bake sale to make money for the Church" type of old ladies have me sit down with her minister who then berated me for about 4 hours and told me how my soul was Satan's for the taking if I continued to game.
Not all devotedly religious people, be they Christian or otherwise, are anti-gamer, but I'd say that the majority aren't exactly open-minded about it. This isn't meant to be an anti-religous comment, but, to be honest, the very nature of just about any religion isn't exactly about the open-minded acceptance of things that the religion doesn't agree with wholeheartedly or understand. Most religions take a "if it ain't in the book, it must be ag'in' the book" approach, and that's one of the reasons why you don't see all that many churches or temples with "Young DnD Gamers Night" postings on their bulletin boards.
Last edited:
Since the beginning of this year, I've started a friend playing D&D and a couple other RPG's (Vampire and Call of Cthulhu). He's a Jehovah's Witness and I'm a "Not till I see proof" sort of person.
Anyway, we were discussing these issues in conversation recently and we came to the conclusion that if God really is up there, He knows that we gamers are not really worshipping false gods or raising the undead or what-have-you.
The only D&D based issue we've ever had ever in the UK (that I can remember anyway) came about from a Scottish crime/investigation series called Taggart. There was one program where some guys were playing D&D and then one was murdered and another vanished. I don't recall how it ended or what have you, but it sparked some discussion at the time.
Anyway, we were discussing these issues in conversation recently and we came to the conclusion that if God really is up there, He knows that we gamers are not really worshipping false gods or raising the undead or what-have-you.
The only D&D based issue we've ever had ever in the UK (that I can remember anyway) came about from a Scottish crime/investigation series called Taggart. There was one program where some guys were playing D&D and then one was murdered and another vanished. I don't recall how it ended or what have you, but it sparked some discussion at the time.
abri
Mad Scientist
Nope, sorry but it's the same in other country too...mmu1 said:
In France where I come from, the rpg community had a very hard time too: the carpantra scandal (one of the biggest scandal in France for the last 20 years) ended up with RPG being accused...
Ah and 2 suicides where parents accused RPG...
Ah and several shows on national tv stating that gamers where a bunch of psychos....
You see, other countries too
At least it's better now.
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad
Before this thread is closed, and before people starting citing some fictional rule against the discussion of religion on these boards, I'm going to quote the only rules that apply, at all, to these boards (from the registration form):
"By clicking the Agree button, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.
The owners of EN World - d20 News & Reviews have the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason."
Discussion of whether the majority of christians dislike D&D is not "obsene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, threatening, or violative of any laws". That leaves hateful. Is it a hateful statement to say "more than 50% of christians dislike D&D" (or ad a stronger adjective than dislike, if you prefer)? I don't think so. It's a strong statement. It's in my opinion a false statement. But I don't think there was any malice. I do not think the statement was made with a desire to cause pain, injury, or distress to another (the definition of malice & hateful).
The statement was made to foster this discussion: one of the possible reasons why Dungeons & Dragons has been unable to reach the critical mass necessary to break into the mainstream of popular entertainment in the United States is because it has a negative reputation among some religious people (and we can debate what percentage of religious people have that negative opinion, and wether that percentage is a material number or not).
The causes of, and cures for, D&D's negative perception are a very relevant, very valid discussion for these forums.
Of course, the moderators have the right to "remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason". I would just ask the moderators, respectfully, to withhold from closing this thread, because it's an important one, and deserves discussion by this community. Of course, if it turns "obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws" in nature, shut it down. But I don't think it has.
"By clicking the Agree button, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.
The owners of EN World - d20 News & Reviews have the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason."
Discussion of whether the majority of christians dislike D&D is not "obsene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, threatening, or violative of any laws". That leaves hateful. Is it a hateful statement to say "more than 50% of christians dislike D&D" (or ad a stronger adjective than dislike, if you prefer)? I don't think so. It's a strong statement. It's in my opinion a false statement. But I don't think there was any malice. I do not think the statement was made with a desire to cause pain, injury, or distress to another (the definition of malice & hateful).
The statement was made to foster this discussion: one of the possible reasons why Dungeons & Dragons has been unable to reach the critical mass necessary to break into the mainstream of popular entertainment in the United States is because it has a negative reputation among some religious people (and we can debate what percentage of religious people have that negative opinion, and wether that percentage is a material number or not).
The causes of, and cures for, D&D's negative perception are a very relevant, very valid discussion for these forums.
Of course, the moderators have the right to "remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason". I would just ask the moderators, respectfully, to withhold from closing this thread, because it's an important one, and deserves discussion by this community. Of course, if it turns "obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws" in nature, shut it down. But I don't think it has.
Kichwas
Half-breed
DnD is evil because it encourages the use of the imagination.
Which we all know is the root is all evil as it puts satanic thoughts into our minds and turns us away from the power and glory of our local pastor (oh.. was that supposed to be god?).
There is a certain portion of western society that has somehow gotten it into it's heads that imagination and free thought are not the greatest gifts of the divine, but the method by which satan temps people away from the divine.
Never mind the lack of any backing in the western world's holy scriptures for such an idea... If you ask me if there was a Satan who was working against god and who ever put a bad thought into man's mind the idea that imagination was evil would be it...
What it really comes down to is an issue of control. Religion has become a tool of earthly power for far too many people. Control people's thoughts and you control them.
Free their imaginations and you cannot control their thoughts.
Which we all know is the root is all evil as it puts satanic thoughts into our minds and turns us away from the power and glory of our local pastor (oh.. was that supposed to be god?).
There is a certain portion of western society that has somehow gotten it into it's heads that imagination and free thought are not the greatest gifts of the divine, but the method by which satan temps people away from the divine.
Never mind the lack of any backing in the western world's holy scriptures for such an idea... If you ask me if there was a Satan who was working against god and who ever put a bad thought into man's mind the idea that imagination was evil would be it...
What it really comes down to is an issue of control. Religion has become a tool of earthly power for far too many people. Control people's thoughts and you control them.
Free their imaginations and you cannot control their thoughts.
Humanophile
First Post
I'd dare to add that your average christian in America does have a vague distaste for D&D. There are large swathes of the country where a more urban, open minded, level headed opinion isn't properly encouraged (if it isn't discouraged outright), and in those places, D&D is already stigmatized as something different even before the witch hunts started, and people of that sort tend not to change their opinions once they've been set. And I'd bet people like that outnmuber active gamers by a good number.
Of course, by that same logic, your average male also thinks D&D is satanic and evil, and christianity only has those wackos as part of the group by dint of being the best known religion out there. (Granted, it is also one of the pushiest, but that's a cause in and of itself.) If the dominant religion in the U.S. were buddhist, you'd have small-minded buddhists and anti-buddhism gamer sentiment, so I don't see how christianity as an entity is responsible for anything. Socal impact aside, I don't see how being an intellectual makes one any less likely to believe in a god. (This being the real world, athiesm is in vogue with intellectuals, but again that has little to do with this post.)
Of course, by that same logic, your average male also thinks D&D is satanic and evil, and christianity only has those wackos as part of the group by dint of being the best known religion out there. (Granted, it is also one of the pushiest, but that's a cause in and of itself.) If the dominant religion in the U.S. were buddhist, you'd have small-minded buddhists and anti-buddhism gamer sentiment, so I don't see how christianity as an entity is responsible for anything. Socal impact aside, I don't see how being an intellectual makes one any less likely to believe in a god. (This being the real world, athiesm is in vogue with intellectuals, but again that has little to do with this post.)
Ulrick
First Post
Where I grew up D&D became evil the moment I introduced it to the son (my best friend) of an official church minister who had no church. He and his wife fervently tried to keep their son away from me once they discovered I got their son to play.
They feared me, and they judged me evil...for playing a game.
They grounded their son, forced him to burn his books...for playing a game.
They would come over to my home, practically lay siege to it, if they thought their son was inside...playing a game.
They claimed to Christian, perhaps they were, but I would never generalize Christian people based on what they did. I know how it feels to be judged like that. It hurts--especially to me as a teenager with low-esteem.
Yes, it still angers me a little for what happened almost a eight years ago.
And yet I realize that they were fed the garbage the media cranked out about D&D. In there own little fearful world, there were probably Dark Dungeons, Mazes and Monsters, And of course, dragons to claim their son. And each incident, be it Patricia Pulling's son, James Dallas Egbert III, or something as simple as LARPing, fed this fear.
So, I how could I blame them? I couldn't, they chose to live in their own world of fear. And I think that's what happened when "D&D became evil!" a lot of people became fearful of what they didn't understand, and chose to live in that fear.
Ulrick
They feared me, and they judged me evil...for playing a game.
They grounded their son, forced him to burn his books...for playing a game.
They would come over to my home, practically lay siege to it, if they thought their son was inside...playing a game.
They claimed to Christian, perhaps they were, but I would never generalize Christian people based on what they did. I know how it feels to be judged like that. It hurts--especially to me as a teenager with low-esteem.
Yes, it still angers me a little for what happened almost a eight years ago.
And yet I realize that they were fed the garbage the media cranked out about D&D. In there own little fearful world, there were probably Dark Dungeons, Mazes and Monsters, And of course, dragons to claim their son. And each incident, be it Patricia Pulling's son, James Dallas Egbert III, or something as simple as LARPing, fed this fear.
So, I how could I blame them? I couldn't, they chose to live in their own world of fear. And I think that's what happened when "D&D became evil!" a lot of people became fearful of what they didn't understand, and chose to live in that fear.
Ulrick
Draco Argentum
First Post
Ulrick said:
Interesting, these are the kind of people I think of as ignorant, close-minded fools. This kind of rubbish goes a long way towards causeing various problems worldwide.
If I were you I'd feel perfectly justified in blaming them for their own actions. Of course you can explain their actions anyway you want.
Similar Threads
