D&D 5E What Makes 5E "5E"?

[Garthanos]

The super hero power levels?

Well casters get to be superheroes anyway like creating an army of simulacrum. Fighter is usually just the guy from the gym who college athletes can jump farther than ...not even Beowulf let alone Cu Chulaine.

But at high level you can hit it one more time. Totally the same.

 

[MichaelSomething]

What about them? This thread is for you to talk about what YOU think makes 5E 5E.

Then I shouldn't have framed it as questions then?

The things I listed are 5Eisms. At least according to all the complaints I hear around here.

 

[Reynard]

Then I shouldn't have framed it as questions then?

The things I listed are 5Eisms. At least according to all the complaints I hear around here.

Is that a helpful way to frame the discussion, do you think?

 

[Oofta]

Well casters get to be superheroes anyway like creating an army of simulacrum.

Simulacrum army has always been the Pun-Pun of 5e trotted out as an example of how broken the rules are but never actually seen in any game. Fortunately the 2024 rules also explicitly state that a simulacrum cannot cast simulacrum so hopefully we can stop seeing that simulacrum strawman someday. As far as any DM I've ever had, it was like the peasant railgun which they've now pointed out has never been the intent of the rules.

Fighter is usually just the guy from the gym who college athletes can jump farther than ...not even Beowulf let alone Cu Chulaine.

Those college athletes are jumping under ideal conditions on a track into sand and carrying no gear. Load those college kids up like the typical fighter with a hundred pounds of gear or more and then jump under just about any environmental conditions onto a hard surface. Then have them do it repeatedly it all day long because the jump distance is just talking about what you can do without a chance of failure as part of your movement. The GM can always call for an athletics check to exceed the guaranteed distance. I'd probably give them advantage and a lower target DC if they were on a packed track wearing the typical t-shirt, shorts and modern running shoes.

As far as superhero levels go, depends on the superhero. Superman levels where you can (apparently) fly far faster than the speed of light to get to other solar systems and drag planets around on a chain? Or Luke Cage level of superhero? There's a pretty broad spectrum of what superhero means.

 

[Oofta]

I've played D&D forever and I the current version is likely my favorite (I think, the 2024 version is still new). Thinking about past versions and what I enjoyed the most about playing the game and I have to say that 5E works for me because it does a decent job of balancing the different things I want out of the game because they can sometimes be contradictory.

On the one hand I want a game that's relatively simple to play because even though I've played for a long time I still want a more casual game when it comes to the rules that we use. So what makes 5E "5E"? A lot of points have already been covered but off the top of my head

• Bounded accuracy
  • I can now actually use monsters a few CR levels below the party level and they can still be effective.
  • With some pretty rare exceptions (e.g. that guy that puts absolutely everything into having a sky-high perception check), people who are proficient in a skill aren't generally that far behind.
  • AC doesn't go through the roof unless the DM allows it to be an issue. I'm looking at you, the DM who gives the fighter +3 plate, +3 shield, cloak and rings of protection by the time they're 10th level.
  • We don't need the magic item treadmill of required weapon upgrades, especially now with 5E.24 seeming to get rid of the immunities to mundane weapons.
• More approachable rules and options. Yes, there is still some complexity to the game system mastery isn't the requirement that we had in the previous WotC editions. I know people complain about natural language being used but new people getting into previous editions faced a pretty steep uphill climb of jargon and overall complexity.
• The return of and emphasis on DM empowerment and house rules. In both 3 and even more in 4E, WotC seemed to want a one true way of playing. Lock down the rules so we all have the same experience may make sense in some ways but I don't think it ever really worked well.
• Decent balance between classes at all levels. No, this will never be perfect even if you go the route of 4E having all characters use the same AEDU structure (until Essentials, which I still think of as 4.5E). While different classes serve different roles as part of the team and different classes have different ways to shine, for the most part they balance out in my experience which includes multiple campaigns run to level 20.
• Less of a need for "must have" classes like the cleric. Yes, having a dedicated healer is nice but it is not an absolute requirement since there are now (especially with drinking potions being a bonus action) alternatives.

There are always going to be things I don't care for a well of course, like the rogue's reliable talent, but that's what I can think of off the top of my head for now.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Agreed. Everything else is negotiable.

I think it’s the bounded accuracy, non-stacking bonuses, concentration and the advantage/disadvantage mechanic that stand out as the differentiators to me.

 

[Chaltab]

Aside from the stuff that D&D has always used, like the 1d20 + Modifiers, the 6 Ability Scores, Armor Class making you harder to hit, etc... the stuff that makes 5E itself is:

• Proficiency bonus with limited scaling that applies universally to anything you're proficient with
• Bounded accuracy
• Advantage and Disadvantage in place of most numeric bonuses and penalties
• An action economy that treats movement as a fluid and actions as solids.
• Plain language instead of keywords and symbols

 

[MichaelSomething]

Is that a helpful way to frame the discussion, do you think?

To completely understand something, you need to embrace the good as well as well as the bad.

Note that what is bad to one person can be good to another.

And thanks to 5E's success, it's easier than ever to dismiss the haters!

 

[Micah Sweet]

And thanks to 5E's success, it's easier than ever to dismiss the haters!

I don't understand this. How does 5e's success help with this?

 

[Reynard]

To completely understand something, you need to embrace the good as well as well as the bad.

Note that what is bad to one person can be good to another.

And thanks to 5E's success, it's easier than ever to dismiss the haters!

I guess I just don't understand why you are inventing negatives no one is saying.