D&D General What makes a TTRPG a "D&D Variant" to you?

[Reynard]

[NOTE: I tried to post this in the actual variants subforum but there was no appropriate prefix.]

This has come up in a couple threads, so i thought we could focus a discussion on it.

Note that this is not a forum rules post, or a post about game geneology or taxonomy. Rather, this is a philosophical question: to you, personally, what makes a game a variant of D&D? What are the limits of that? Is it mechanical? Thematic? Intention?

Just by way of a wide example, in another thread someone called Dungeon World a D&D variant, and I personally would reject this classification. Trying to hit the same themes doesn't make it a "variant" in my opinion. Otherwise, one could call Earthdawn a D&D variant because that game was aimed at giving D&D tropes a place in the milieu of the game, despite having next to no connection to D&D mechanics.

What do you think. What makes a game a D&D variant from your perspective, and what are the limits of that classification?

 

[RuinousPowers]

D&D variant to me means: levels, classes, and the standard attributes.

 

[Tonguez]

Fantasy focussed game with class and level structure and attributes system

 

[TwoSix]

Man, that's tough.

For me, I'd place

-PF2 as a D&D variant but on the outer fringe
-Shadow of the Demon Lord is not a D&D variant although it's very "D&D-ish", and Weird Wizard even more so.
-Dungeon World echoes D&D tropes but is not a D&D variant.
-13th Age is right on the cusp. It's the best example of something where I see legitimate arguments both ways.

 

[Morrus]

For me, it's at least got to use the same core mechanic--d20 + modifier vs. target number. 6 attributes (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha). Levels and classes.

I mean, some of that can be tweaked, sure, but most of it has to be there. Almost certainly, the game is probably going to advertise itself as being powered by an edition of D&D, or of being a clone of D&D.

 

[nyvinter]

I'd echo class, levels, attributes, and d20+ mod rolls.

This make Dungeon World not a D&D despite how much it really wants to be seen as it. It means 13th Age, lots of OSR, NuSR (Beyond the Wall), and Pathfinder are all D&D.

Edge case for me is the X Without Number but I still think they're D&D because it really wants to lean into the OSR D&D outside of the skills. (I do think the game would have been better as more of a Traveller clone but that's just me so lets not go into that here.)

Fantasy Age and Shadow of the Demon Lord is not D&D.
Edit: Numenera is also not D&D, which pinpoint that just classes and levels are not enough.

 

[Neonchameleon]

To me that it is trying to do how they played D&D as a design goal. There is no one criterion that says "this is" or "this isn't" although the big three are classes, levels, and fantasy adventure.

Other strong indicators include six-ish stats that are mostly analogues of the D&D ones (if they've gone for a seventh, especially "Comeliness" back in the TSR era it's still a D&D variant) allusions to D&D in the branding are a huge sign. Use of the d20 is common - and where the d20 is not used there is normally a significant resemblance but an attempt to improve on what the d20 does (e.g. d100s with everything in multiples of 5 used to be common in the TSR era as did 3d6 for a bell curve in a similar range)

Different editions have different characteristics of course - and I'd describe everything in Ron Edwards' Fantasy Heartbreakers essay in 2002 as a D&D variant but modern D&D variants very seldom look like that.

 

[Deset Gled]

Even without looking inside a book, I assume any game that markets itself as "OSR", references the OGL or a D&D SRD, or otherwise claims some vague "compatibility with most RPGs" to be a D&D variant.

 

[Neonchameleon]

For me, it's at least got to use the same core mechanic--d20 + modifier vs. target number. 6 attributes (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha). Levels and classes.

At this point I'm going to say you are talking exclusively about WotC-D&D. As a triviality Comeliness was a seventh stat in the original Unearthed Arcana.

More importantly d20 + modifier vs target number only became the core mechanic with 3.0. It was a mechanic before that - but there was also roll under your stat, roll over your savings throw, system shock and thief skill percentiles, and however initiative worked. When you seem to have excluded AD&D from your D&D variants I'd say you have cut far far too narrowly.

 

[Morrus]

references the OGL

Pretty sure Fate uses the OGL, but it's nothing like D&D. Gumshoe, too, IIRC. I definitely wouldn't call either of them a variant of D&D (or even close to it).