What NON-OBVIOUS stuff would you like to see in Revised?

Sir Whiskers said:

2. Get rid of the current familiar list. Create a list of basic bonuses given by familiars (bonus stat, bonus save, special ability) then allow a character to choose any normal, weak animal as a familiar. The particular special ability can be rolled randomly, or the GM can choose one to fit the character's conception. I'm tired of players choosing toads to get the Con boost, and so on.

Agreed: the current familiar list is terrible. Instead, casters should be able to choose from a list of familiars grouped by Family, such as Canine. Then, casters can choose from a list of bonuses for that Family (such as +2 Listen, for Canine). Some bonuses should be shared among many different familiars; you shouldn't be forced to pick a Toad just because you want the +2 Con (for example).


3. Simplify magic item creation, by reducing the number of feats.
4. Eliminate the limited weapon lists for classes like the druid - give them simple weapon proficiency.
5. Combine all the 2nd-level stat buffing spells into one spell. Allow the caster to choose what stat when casting it. Allow only one such buff spell (regardless of the stat buffed) to work on the same target at the same time.
6. Change Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally to work based on the CR of the creature summoned.
7. Officially change bows and ammunition, so that the bow only adds to the attack roll, and ammunition only adds to damage (and penetrates DR).

Right on. Agree 100%. The 2nd-level stat buff spell is the best idea so far, especially the limit.

-z, agreeing.
 

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5. Combine all the 2nd-level stat buffing spells into one spell. Allow the caster to choose what stat when casting it. Allow only one such buff spell (regardless of the stat buffed) to work on the same target at the same time.

I'll be different and oppose this. [grin]

I think that the spell lists are too homogeneous as they are. I would prefer that the Cleric of the God of Strength and Valor to have access to the Str-booster, but not the Int-booster. Similarly the Cleric of the God of Wisdom and Knowledge might not have access to the Str, Dex, or Con boosters. I think the clerical path is more of an issue because of the fact that they don't have to seek out the spells, they just automatically get everything on the list.

John
 

Re: Re: Re: What NON-OBVIOUS stuff would you like to see in Revised?

Apok said:


Bad idea, and I'll tell you why.

As it stands now, GMW is the only good way to get a decent supply of enchanted arrows. Without that spell, archers are basically useless once DR comes into play since only the enhancement bonus of the missile is considered. Changing it to one arrow/casting would basically make it useless. Gee, I've got one +3 arrow, which means I get one good shot and then I'm outta the fight.

If you make this change, then you will also have to have the enhancement bonus of the bow or crossbow count against DR and not just the ammo. Someone mentioned this already (mousferatu?) and said that the bonus should at least overlap (use the higher of the two) for DR penetration purposes. The double-stacking damage and attack bonuses are nice, but if enchanted arrows aren't necessary to penetrate DR then it becomes much less of an issue. Another possible solution would be to make enchanted arrows much cheaper to buy or at least sell them in packs of 100 rather than 50.

Besides, 50 arrows is nothing. A good archer can eat through those in 10 rounds or less, so he'd better save that quiver of GMW'd arrows for the stuff with DR rather than using it against every goblin or gnoll on the road.

That is a very good archer in game terms, by the time they get to a high enough level to eat through arrows like that they should have other means available to them. This is a sort of gray area rules wise, something needs to change.

Actually, no. I've seen this guy on the discovery channel fire 5 arrows at a target within 6 seconds. The target was 100 metres away and all hit the target: A metal breastplate, which was pierced by all arrows fired.

He was very good then. Of course I am a very bad archer ( I once almost shot myself, and I was shooting forward not up, long story). That compares to a highly skilled archer in the game.
 

Wolfen Priest said:
All races should have "Favored class: Any."

Half-Elves should get +1 to Cha and/or get no multi-classing penalty whatsoever (i.e., no -20% xp). Otherwise no one will play them over a human.

.

Two things:

Why then bother to have Favoured Class at all? (and you are saying that Dwarves for instance have as much preference for the druid and wizard classes as the fighter and cleric in a STANDARD DnD campaign - you can always change that for regional or cultural sub-types of your own).

+1 bonuses to ability scores- as has been established to death - break the current system and are strongly discouraged and viewed as bad design.

-Zarrock
 

Zarrock said:
Why then bother to have Favoured Class at all? (and you are saying that Dwarves for instance have as much preference for the druid and wizard classes as the fighter and cleric in a STANDARD DnD campaign - you can always change that for regional or cultural sub-types of your own).

I am saying get rid of the favored classes. If you want to play a dwarven druid, go ahead. If you want to play an elven ranger with a few druid levels, go ahead. And, I believe, if you want to play a half-elf with any combination of levels in any base class, go ahead (that's what half-elves are good for, circa Second Edition or earlier).

Either way, whatever class is your highest level will be your favored; it gives more choices to players, so if I want to play a dwarf from the mountains who is more of a druid than a fighter, what of it? I don't see how this could possibly ruin or even imbalance the game.

As it stands, I could argue that humans are broken, since almost everyone plays one almost all the time (getting a free feat and +4 skill points at first level *is* a big deal). I think that since 3e, the half-elf has officially become the least played race of all time.

+1 bonuses to ability scores- as has been established to death - break the current system and are strongly discouraged and viewed as bad design.

Maybe I should have added that I'm also for making point-buy the standard char-gen method. Problem solved.

Originally posted by GreybarSo a better spell range than the cleric (more domains) and all of the fancy powers as well?

I should have been more clear; I meant that I think a druid should get choice of two of those domains, just like clerics. I mean let's face it: druids' spells are weaker than clerics (especially when you take into account spontaneous casting), their weapons and armor are obviously way worse, and their special abilities don't make up for it, IMO. they need to be made stronger, probably by ditching their weapon restrictions (or just giving them a better, broader list), and giving them access to two domains. If clerics can have it without breaking them, why in the world would it break druids?
 

Wolfen Priest said:


I am saying get rid of the favored classes. If you want to play a dwarven druid, go ahead. If you want to play an elven ranger with a few druid levels, go ahead. And, I believe, if you want to play a half-elf with any combination of levels in any base class, go ahead (that's what half-elves are good for, circa Second Edition or earlier).

Either way, whatever class is your highest level will be your favored; it gives more choices to players, so if I want to play a dwarf from the mountains who is more of a druid than a fighter, what of it? I don't see how this could possibly ruin or even imbalance the game.

Personally, I'd rather just get rid of the multiclassing penalties. I don't think they add much to the game, and other d20 system games have done well without them.

As it stands, I could argue that humans are broken, since almost everyone plays one almost all the time (getting a free feat and +4 skill points at first level *is* a big deal). I think that since 3e, the half-elf has officially become the least played race of all time.

Humans aren't broken-- they should be the most commonly played race, and all of the D&D settings I've seen have shown humans to be the dominant race. It would make sense that they are more versatile than other races, and possibly even more powerful.
 

I should have been more clear; I meant that I think a druid should get choice of two of those domains, just like clerics. I mean let's face it: druids' spells are weaker than clerics (especially when you take into account spontaneous casting), their weapons and armor are obviously way worse, and their special abilities don't make up for it, IMO. they need to be made stronger, probably by ditching their weapon restrictions (or just giving them a better, broader list), and giving them access to two domains. If clerics can have it without breaking them, why in the world would it break druids?

Have you played with a modeate- to high-level druid recently? Believe you me, I speak from experience, they are not substantially weaker than clerics. Especially when they start getting into the more impressive wild shapes...

I agree their weapons restrictions are goofy, but other than that, I don't see much need for change.
 

Wolfen Priest said:


I am saying get rid of the favored classes. If you want to play a dwarven druid, go ahead. If you want to play an elven ranger with a few druid levels, go ahead. And, I believe, if you want to play a half-elf with any combination of levels in any base class, go ahead (that's what half-elves are good for, circa Second Edition or earlier).



I like the idea of favored classes, but I don't like the mechanic. Any xp penalty at all would seem too high, and there are a lot of valid character concepts that don't make it through the filter. If it's scrapped, though, you need to give a little bonus to the humans and half-elves who are losing their advantage. But only a very minor bonus.



As it stands, I could argue that humans are broken, since almost everyone plays one almost all the time (getting a free feat and +4 skill points at first level *is* a big deal). I think that since 3e, the half-elf has officially become the least played race of all time.


Boy, I remember when no one played humans at all because their only advantage never came into play in most campaigns. But I agree that most campaign worlds should be humanocentric, simply because players like to identify with their characters and I think they enjoy the world more when it's at least vaguely familiar.



I should have been more clear; I meant that I think a druid should get choice of two of those domains, just like clerics. I mean let's face it: druids' spells are weaker than clerics (especially when you take into account spontaneous casting), their weapons and armor are obviously way worse, and their special abilities don't make up for it, IMO. they need to be made stronger, probably by ditching their weapon restrictions (or just giving them a better, broader list), and giving them access to two domains. If clerics can have it without breaking them, why in the world would it break druids?

I also remember when no one played clerics unless they were forced to--now it seems that everyone plays clerics (although to be fair, this trend started with FR's Faiths and Avatars, which effectively introduced a couple of dozen new character classes which were like clerics but better). For clerics, at least, the pendulum has now swung too far I think--many of the most potent wizard spells have found their way into cleric domains, and the extra special abilities that the domains grant are often very powerful (but cool).

I think druids are fine, actually. It's true that they suffer when compared against the cleric, but so does everyone else.

Here's what I would do for the cleric:

The Basic Cleric would have d6 HD, medium armor prof., shields, simple weapons, and 4 skill points per level. They would still channel +/- energy and spontaneously cast healing/inflicting. I wholly agree with WotC's rationale that this brings more clerical spells into play, and is a very good thing. The basic clerical spell list, however, would get only the spells that are really common--mostly healing, divination,and protection spells with a smattering of traditional favorites like Command and Flame Strike.

The domains would often contain more than one spell per level, and would also expand the basic functionality. So a cleric of the War domain would get d8 HD, heavy armor and martial weapons as their domain power, for example. The healing domain could also bump up the HD to a d8 in addition to granting bonuses to healing spells. All domain spells would be added to the cleric's list, and could be prepared multiple times as normal. Rather than filling out the domains with powerful wizard spells like Power Word Kill and Chain Lightning, new and useful spells would be created which really match the domain well. The occasional wizard spell in a domain list is OK, but it should be at least one level higher for clerics if it's a good spell.

--Ben
 


-Player's Handbook-

Give people a reason to play Half-Elves. Give them either the Human's feat or the Human's skill points.

Give people a reason to go 20 levels in Sorcerer (and to some extent Wizard). As it is, if you are playing a Sorcerer, 110% of the time you are better off to get into a prestige class, as the Sorcerer class offers NOTHING.

As with above, make **each and every** class attractive all the way through level 20. I don't care how, but players should feel like they are giving something up by either multiclassing or taking a prestige class. Probably my #1 complaint with d20.

-Dungeon Master's Guide-

Offer more tips on world-building, adventure crafting and campaign making.

Illustrate more of the magical items in the book. Players and DMs LIKE visual references.

-Monster Manual-

Illustrate *everything*. That means do illustrations for all the Celestials, Giants, etc... in the 'series'. Again, visual references in a make-believe world are essential.
 

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