D&D (2024) What older setting do you want to see next?

[Yaarel]

As your post acknowledges ...

Yes, the description of the Flannae and associated art (to my knowledge, there's only one Gygax-era illustration showing humans of different ancestries, on p. 15 of the Guide) certainly could lead one to conclude that they are modelled after indigenous North Americans.

David Howery's adventure, "Ghost Dance," in Dungeon Mag #32 (1991) only reinforced the "indigenous North American" image of the Flannae.

So there certainly is evidence to support your argument.

The Living Greyhawk Gazetteer has art that again makes the Flannae vaguely resemble indigenous North Americans

The Flan are fantasy versions of Indigenous Americans, in the same way that the "Barbarians" are fantasy versions of Viking Era Nordic Peoples.

As a formula, a "fantasy" version normally combines something familiar with an element that is unfamiliar.

The Flanaess is a fantastical world inspired by medieval Europe, peopled with pseudo-Vikings, pseudo-Huns, etc.

To use elements from reallife cultures in a disrespectful way is problematic in itself. Sometimes racist.

The disrespect can be in form of culturally appropriating, misrepresenting, demonizing, disparaging, humiliating, or dehumanizing via a stereotype.

The fact that the reallife familiar cultural characteristics are recognizable, makes it irrelevant if an unfamiliar element is combined with it.

 

[aia_2]

Oh dear. Does this mean Blackmoor was a location in the First World?

I am not sure what is the First world... This is the first time i read this term with the capital letter.
I am sure that Blackmoor pre-existed any other setting as it was the very first setting ever made up (and eventually it has been published by Judges Guild as "First Fantasy Campaign"... Omen nomen!): Blackmoor was the venue run by Arneson before D&D was published in 1973/74. Arneson showed his ideas to Gygax by using Blackmoor setting...
Therefore i am not sure if you used the term first world in that sense but namely it is!

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I am not sure what is the First world... This is the first time i read this term with the capital letter.

A recent addition to D&D canon, starting with Fizban's last year. It's the more-mythical-than-mythical literal first world where orcs, elves, dragons, etc., first occurred and which, after its destruction (?), echoes throughout the multiverse, where archetypes like elves and dwarves and such reoccur, along with some unusually potent individuals like named dragons and, presumably, archliches and the like.

 

[Parmandur]

A recent addition to D&D canon, starting with Fizban's last year. It's the more-mythical-than-mythical literal first world where orcs, elves, dragons, etc., first occurred and which, after its destruction (?), echoes throughout the multiverse, where archetypes like elves and dwarves and such reoccur, along with some unusually potent individuals like named dragons and, presumably, archliches and the like.

Propagating to play a big part in Bigby's Giants, and most likely in the Book of Many Things. Maybe the Deck of Many Things is a magical series of echoes from the superneal First World...

 

[aia_2]

A recent addition to D&D canon, starting with Fizban's last year. It's the more-mythical-than-mythical literal first world where orcs, elves, dragons, etc., first occurred and which, after its destruction (?), echoes throughout the multiverse, where archetypes like elves and dwarves and such reoccur, along with some unusually potent individuals like named dragons and, presumably, archliches and the like.

Ahhh... So it is a 5E thing! Ok, since i don't know anything about 5E setting, i do understand it only now... Apologies if i missed this detail!

 

[Blue Orange]

I always thought the whole Suel 'purity' thing was a little bit of a dig at the Nazis, since the biggest enthusiasts of it are the evil eugenicist monks of the Scarlet Brotherhood. And they did create the Invoked Devastation from what I remember (likely a 'nuclear war' allusion). In the late 1970s WW2 would have been as recent as the end of the Cold War is now, and Nazis were and are popular enemies up and down pop culture. (They even show up in Cthulhu Dark Ages, which I thought was a little silly.)

 

[Parmandur]

I always thought the whole Suel 'purity' thing was a little bit of a dig at the Nazis, since the biggest enthusiasts of it are the evil eugenicist monks of the Scarlet Brotherhood. And they did create the Invoked Devastation from what I remember (likely a 'nuclear war' allusion). In the late 1970s WW2 would have been as recent as the end of the Cold War is now, and Nazis were and are popular enemies up and down pop culture. (They even show up in Cthulhu Dark Ages, which I thought was a little silly.)

Sure, absolutely: notw that Suel beliefs about their superiority have no basis in game stats. Doesn't mean that is an appropriate theme in this day and age, even if in-universe they are objectively wrong.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sure, absolutely: notw that Suel beliefs about their superiority have no basis in game stats. Doesn't mean that is an appropriate theme in this day and age, even if in-universe they are objectively wrong.

This is making me want a list of themes that are inappropriate in this day and age, just so I know what I should be finding offensive in fiction. Apparently anyone believing in racial purity, no matter how wrong they are and how evil they are depicted, is on the list.

 

[eyeheartawk]

This is making me want a list of themes that are inappropriate in this day and age, just so I know what I should be finding offensive in fiction. Apparently anyone believing in racial purity, no matter how wrong they are and how evil they are depicted, is on the list.

Yeah, it's a bit weird. Like, the Scarlet Brotherhood has always been depicted as evil and wrong in any of the published material. By that standard any game with Nazis as villains doesn't fly today. And yet, lots of those. Somebody tell Modiphius that Achtung Cthulhu has now been canceled.

By me.

Just now.

In this thread.

 

[Remathilis]

Sure, absolutely: notw that Suel beliefs about their superiority have no basis in game stats. Doesn't mean that is an appropriate theme in this day and age, even if in-universe they are objectively wrong.

Are we really going to say having cartoonish fake Nazi's to punch is problematic? The Scarlet Brotherhood is basically Hydra; a villainous group you can punch with impunity. They have a twisted ideology that is easily refuted and makes them easy to oppose. Take that away and they become Cobra; a villainous group that has no purpose or plan other than Be Evil.

I get that there are some sensitive things about racial purity as an ideology in the real world, but I think by saying that we can't broach the subject even as a clearly evil intention for villains reduces Evil in D&D down to cartoon levels of depth.