What on earth does "video-gamey" mean?

[Twowolves]

All popular roleplaying games are combat-oriented, with the one exception of Call of Cthulhu, which is investigation-oriented. The White Wolf games pretend to be roleplay-oriented while in reality providing the killing and level-up action that people enjoy so much.

And how on earth could any rpg remove 'any true freedom beyond which mook to smite'? Even FATAL doesn't do that.

You are only reading part of my quote. I'd agree with you if all I said were "combat oriented". Which I did not. I said "combat oriented at the expense of any true freedom of INTERACTION beyond which mook to smite". You know, like in a video game.

I'd love to banter more about this, but not really. Just wanted to point out that you are responding to only half a quote, a.k.a taking me out of context to try and prove a point.

 

[The Little Raven]

OK. Here goes. 4th Edition feels video gamey to me because when I see a fantasy style video/computer game (i.e. WoW) I see all sorts of special effects going on during play. (that's what's suppost to happen, a video/computer game is suppost to please the eye).

So, you're talking about visual effects, like how Magic Missile is described as a bolt of silvery light, and some of the Paladin Prayers come with golden glowey effects, and such?

Now that I've gotten to play 4th edition (yes I've played it and DMed it) I see the same affects that a video game has. no matter what the players do, there is some sort of "special effects" going off to make their abilities seem, well...video gamey.

Okay, this makes it sound like you're talking about mechanical effects, like an attack that slows the target or something. Am I reading that correctly?

There you go Mourn. Is that a good enough explaniation for you? I'm sure you have something up your sleeve to tell me my view is wrong or scued, or I don't know anything about video game even though I own and play Nintendo, Super Nintendo, Sega, PlayStation2, X-Box360 and a Wii.

Step away from that Jump to Conclusions mat. That game isn't as fun as it looks. I want to genuinely find out the objective details that people say make them feel like it's video gamey.

 

[mmadsen]

All of these so-called criticisms - animey, video-gamey, board-gamey, card-gamey whatever - are sloppy short hands that only serve to obscure any point you are trying to make.

I agree that video-gamey is a shorthand, but it's not necessarily a sloppy shorthand.

Instead of saying, "X edition is video-gamey" (after all, this is hardly a new criticism), refer specifically to those elements you don't like. If you find the concept of aggro distasteful, talk about that. If you think there is too strong of a focus on combat, say, "I think X edition is too strongly focused on combat" rather than trying to score points on the Internet.

I agree completely that criticisms should be about specific elements, but it's hopeless to try to get people on a Net forum to discuss specific elements, when they can instead "score points" against the "other team" by ranting about 3E or 4E or GURPS or whatever.

 

[The Little Raven]

You are only reading part of my quote. I'd agree with you if all I said were "combat oriented". Which I did not. I said "combat oriented at the expense of any true freedom of INTERACTION beyond which mook to smite". You know, like in a video game.

Yeah, and he asked how an RPG with highly detailed combat mechanics could actually remove any true freedom of interaction beyond which mook to smite, to which you have not answered.

 

[Stoat]

No, it's not. Although it implies "I don't like it," it doesn't state that, or even say that it being videogamey is the source of dislike. And it's not "just because," it's a reason.

"D&D 4e seems less like what I'm used to BECAUSE the game play and aesthetics remind me of a videogame moreso than previous editions."

It's a perfectly logical statement, and although it cannot be proven, it can be supported with examples.

Maybe I should clarify what I was trying to say. My point is that a person who merely says "It's like a videogame" with no further explanation may as well being saying "I don't like it, just because." Either statement could be supported by reasons, but (in my example) neither has been.

While I was posting, you put up a pretty detailed list explaining your perception of the issue, which is what I was hoping to see in this thread. I don't agree with every example you point out, and a bunch of them are already in 3E, but I can see where you're coming from.

I am curious about "Doing a critical hit and having little green numbers appear next to your allies as they heal." I've never seen anything like that anywhere before 4E. Is there a videogame where damaging your enemies heals your allies?

 

[Jedi_Solo]

It means "like a video game", or if you prefer, "has many elements that are also found in popular video games, which notoriously can handle complex math and if-then type discreet decisions, and is famously combat oriented at the expense of any true freedom or interaction beyond which mook to smite".

Focusing on the last half of that statement:

I must have missed something because I was under the impression that, given the setup by my DM, I could choose Betty, Veronica, neither or go for both.

Sure, games have 'romance' plotlines nowadays but with my DM - if I really wanted to - we could still go through the entire evenings worth of conversation, decide on what dinner to order and what have you. Granted, the rest of the group would likely beat me to a bloody pulp if it actually went that far but I think that is beside the point.

I believe I can still choose to accept the King's offer, refuse the king's offer or spit in his face.

Again, Morrowind, Oblivian, Mass Effect and others have multiple conversation topics but here I at least get to choose my wording if I want to.

I think I can still choose the DM's option to go North, the DM's option to go South or rebel with the rest of my group and go West.

Outside of agreeing to be on a railroad for an adventure I'm not aware of anything stopping my group from exploring the map.

I'm not sure where the limited options you are talking about come from.
Are you thinking of limited feat options? Limited spell selection? Something else? All of the above?

 

[mmadsen]

Heck, most of the early video games that built up into MMO games were straight rips from D&D and D&D-style systems.

Those early computer games that were based off of D&D shared a lot in common with D&D, but what was different -- or what was emphasized -- in those computer games could legitimately be considered videogamey. Is the line cut and dry? No, but there are differences between computer RPGs and pen-and-paper RPGs.

Computer games tend to have a much narrower focus, where everything in the game world is very well defined but not necessarily sensible. Every monster has fungible treasure, NPCs' and monsters' decisions only make sense in their very narrow context, challenges grow with the PCs' power level in a very obvious "Red Queen" style, etc.

A lot of the differences overlap with the simulation versus gamism arguments actually.

 

[Thanee]

"video-gamey" is the perfect term to describe what otherwise would require hundreds or thousands of words.

Bye
Thanee

 

[TimeOut]

"video-gamey" is the perfect term to describe what otherwise would require hundreds or thousands of words.

And like nearly every of those "shortcuts", only the one who uses it does understand its true meaning. Leaving all the others totally clueless in the dark.

Actually using one buzzword instead of a hundred clear and understandable words could very well be the source of many problems, not only on internet message boards.

 

[Family]

If it feels at all like Baldur's Gate II then bring it on!