What on earth is wrong with publishers these days?

[MoonRaven]

True, critics aren't exactly in the conversation here, though I do feel that they prove to be important in the publishing world and, therefore, should have some level of professionalism.

As for telling people that they are being unprofessional being rude, well, I never did tell anyone in particular that they are unprofessional. I'll leave that to the critics. And as far as no one asking my opinion, well, I personally don't care. If that's the rule here, then no one would ever post at all. After all, if forums aren't the place for posting opinions, what is the use of them?

For you, and for many, RPGs might be a "hobby", and that's fine. Makes sense. But for some of us, this is a job and a career. It's a shame that this lax attitude continues in so many people. It just makes those of us that work hard to make a career of this continue to struggle with not only putting out good products, but making sure that people might be able to find them in the muck. Unprofessionalism in a large amount makes the entire RPG online publishing genre gain a bad reputation.

Of course, this is just my opinion. Disapproval of it won't change it in the slightest. But perhaps it will enable a few people to realize that not everyone enjoys this bogging down of the market with inadequate products. I still say if you can't write or publish it correctly, don't do it at all.

Okay, I'm off my soapbox. I will apologize if anyone's feelings are hurt by my comments, but my opinion still stands. I will also say that I know it requires work to produce anything, even products that are not as professional as they should be. I am not saying that no effort is put forth in these endeavors, I'm just saying that the extra steps of learning how to create quality products should be taken. Everyone will appreciate the product (and effort) more in this way, and perhaps people will start taking everyone's products a little more seriously.

 

[Nellisir]

If I was Wizards I would have already snatched away the OGL, due to the flood of less-than-professional products attached to the d20 name now.

Well, I guess we can be thankful you aren't WotC, and the OGL is permanent and non-withdrawable. There's nothing quite like hurling the baby out onto the street with the bathwater.

PDF publishing gives people a chance to get into the field on their own terms and under their own control. That's not always a good thing, but at least PDFs can be revised (and are, with increasing frequency). I've never had a print publisher mail me a new, revised, updated, and expanded copy of a crappy RPG book (though Jim Butler did mail me a replacement copy of my mis-bound Oathbound book, which was cool).

I've been buying pdf products for awhile now, and there is a definate increase in the quality and professionalism of d20 pdf products. Given time, I expect some pdf publishers to consistently rival the big-name print publishers in quality and standards, if not quantity (I like knowing people are taking their time with a product).

Cheers,
Nell.

 

[Crothian]

True, critics aren't exactly in the conversation here, though I do feel that they prove to be important in the publishing world and, therefore, should have some level of professionalism.

They should be proffessional. It's just that there are just so many unproffesional critics of everything on the net that it is a much bigger problem then with just the RPG industry.

As for telling people that they are being unprofessional being rude, well, I never did tell anyone in particular that they are unprofessional. I'll leave that to the critics. And as far as no one asking my opinion, well, I personally don't care. If that's the rule here, then no one would ever post at all. After all, if forums aren't the place for posting opinions, what is the use of them?

There's a difference between posting an opinion on the messageboard and calling someone out saying they are unproffesional.

For you, and for many, RPGs might be a "hobby", and that's fine. Makes sense. But for some of us, this is a job and a career. It's a shame that this lax attitude continues in so many people. It just makes those of us that work hard to make a career of this continue to struggle with not only putting out good products, but making sure that people might be able to find them in the muck. Unprofessionalism in a large amount makes the entire RPG online publishing genre gain a bad reputation.

I apologize, that was mispoken on my part. I meant that many writers are getting into writing as RPGs are their hobby. They might not realize just how difficult the job truely is.

 

[MoonRaven]

They should be proffessional. It's just that there are just so many unproffesional critics of everything on the net that it is a much bigger problem then with just the RPG industry.



There's a difference between posting an opinion on the messageboard and calling someone out saying they are unproffesional.



I apologize, that was mispoken on my part. I meant that many writers are getting into writing as RPGs are their hobby. They might not realize just how difficult the job truely is.

I agree that critics should be professional and that there are unprofessional ones out there in all aspects of the critic world (not just here in RPGland).

And I understand that there's a difference between posting an opinon and calling someone unprofessional. I never did single anyone out, though, and say that they, in particular, were unprofessional. So I don't think that I crossed the line between voicing my opinion and being hurtful. And if I did, I apologize, as my intention was to voice my opinion and not to pass judgements on particular people (after all, I'm not a professional critic, and I do not care to be).

As for your apology on your mispoken comment, it is not necessary. Your simple rewording was enough for me

Now, I've said my piece, voiced my opinion, and I'm laying down my guns I didn't come here to fight about this, but to actually discuss it. I feel strongly about this subject, but realize that most likely do not. So, I will now politely bow out of the conversation and allow you all to get back to the original fight

For now, I'm off to role-play

 

[Fast Learner]

Boy, it's really a great thing that you insisted on reviving this contentious thread, since you added absolutely nothing to it that hasn't already been said.

But then, like my own message, I guess sometimes you just feel the need to say something that other people have already expressed just fine because, you know, it's you saying it this time.

 

[MoonRaven]

Boy, it's really a great thing that you insisted on reviving this contentious thread, since you added absolutely nothing to it that hasn't already been said.

But then, like my own message, I guess sometimes you just feel the need to say something that other people have already expressed just fine because, you know, it's you saying it this time.

You know, I didn't see anything of what I said in this thread. Then again, I didn't read the whole thing since there was a lot of bickering that I didn't feel like wasting my time reading.

It doesn't really matter, though. I won't be returning to EnWorld's forums. There was a reason that I didn't come here very often before - little children run amok here turning every thread into a fight. I actually said viable things and they meant something to me. If you don't like it, keep your damned mouth shut about it. I'm not interested in hearing you insult me for no reason.

I will be contacting the owner of this site and telling him my reasons for not coming here anymore. Perhaps it's time for him to make this forum "adults only" and keep the rabble out.

Respond if you want, but I won't be back. I wouldn't even waste my time on it.

 

[Fast Learner]

Here's what I don't get. This guy (or gal) says he has something important to say, but then tacks it onto the end of a thread full of "bickering" (his words).

I completely agree that if you have something you feel is important to say then you should do so. But this thread should have been closed down ages ago (imo) because it is a lot over bickering. It's not even close to reflective of the vast, vast majority of threads here at ENWorld.

If he wanted to say something important about reviewers and professionalism and all that then great, start a thread to discuss it. It makes absolutely no sense, though, to tack it on to a thread that by his own admission he hadn't even read.

It would be like walking into a room where there were a bunch of steaming people who had just been arguing and insisting that people take what you're about to say seriously. Start a new conversation if you want a serious discussion, don't tack it onto the end of a pissy fight.

That's all I was asking him to do. If he'd actually bothered to read the thread he would have realized that his points had already been made in the midst of the fight and that tacking them onto the end of it isn't going to tell anyone anything.

But then here I am not letting the thread die.

 

[elforcelf]

MoonRaven is my best friend.She is mostly very nice.She has the flu this week;so that might had effect of making her a little grumpy.I think she was bitchly but being sick can do that.Please do not judge her on these posts.elforcelf.

 

[Unseelie]

I am definitely with you there. Reviewing a competing product is unethical at best. I think it's no better than writing a review of your own product.

I can understand purchasing a copy of a competing product so you can compare yourself to what's out there, but you should never leave a review.

And there's the reason why Steve Jackson games only did reviews of stuff they liked in Pyramid magazine when it was still being published. Well, one of the reasons... the other reasons being that they didn't want to discourage ad revenues, and finally, if you don't have anything positive to say, you might as well not say anything at all.