D&D 3E/3.5 What parts of 4E should I bring to 3.5?

d12

First Post
My group will be starting a 3.5 campaign set in Ptolus. We all find 4E to be acceptable to great but we'll be using 3.5 because:

1. Ptolus is a very well developed setting with lots of pre-made adventures and areas already made in 3.5.

and

2. Many of the players just acquired a ton of 3.5 books and want to use them.

So having said that, what parts of 4E would you bring to 3.5? I already know that I am going to be using minions. I am also considering some way of shoving the 4E skill system into 3.5 somehow (any advice on that would be great). I am also trying to think of houserules that might help generate some of the "feel" of 4E without being directly from 4E (like feats that allow sliding, pushing or pulling for example). Be as specific as you can be. Thanks!

If there are similar threads out there, please feel free to link them as I'll be using this thread as a resource.
 

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El Mahdi

Muad'Dib of the Anauroch
The short answer would be, whatever you want;).

I would suggest this: if there are any parts of the 3.5 rules you have problems with, list them and see if you can find fixes for them in the 4E rules (or even Pathfinder). Other than that, if for you a rule isn't broke, don't fix it.

Things that are easily houseruled in to give a 4E feel:

- Death and Dying concept.

- Action Points.

- Point Build for characters.

- Bloodied and Healing Surges.

- Consolidated skills (but I think you said you were bringing in the skill system anyways).

- Powers (a little trickier to bring in but will definately add the feel of 4E) - I wouldn't use them for spellcasters, but brininging them in for the non-spellcasting classes, and even Paladins and Bards, probably wouldn't be too difficult).

Hope this gives you a good place to start.:)
 
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MortonStromgal

First Post
Personally I would use the idea of bloodied, with maybe instead of like 4e make a -2 to -5 penalty to everything when bloodied and also need arcana checks at 10% to 25%. The only other thing I might do is 0 level spells can be cast at anytime, there is no spells per day for them.
 

Exen Trik

First Post
- Powers (a little trickier to bring in but will definately add the feel of 4E) - I wouldn't use them for spellcasters, but brininging them in for the non-spellcasting classes, and even Paladins and Bards, probably wouldn't be too difficult).
Although it would probably be quite difficult to balance, I could see converting the spells per day tables into a series of per day, per encounter and at will spells. Unlimited healing would probably skew resource management horribly though. Involve healing surges as well...?

Universal bab and saves would likely not be simple to balance either, but I'm sure it could be done.
 



Derro

First Post
Solos. I have experimented with them in my games and I find that a Solo makes a great end fight.

You can see what I've done already:

That's some nice work overall. That solo seems pretty brutal though. x5 hp is huge. Since you've already used it and it's not just theory it must work for you but gah, 575 hp for a CR 11. Mighty indeed.
 

Edheldur

First Post
I've been thinking about using elite and solo monsters for 3rd. Edition, but haven't actually tried them. Care to tell us how your implementation has been working, Achan?
 

timbannock

Hero
Supporter
Things that are easily houseruled in to give a 4E feel:

- Death and Dying concept.

- Action Points.

- Point Build for characters.

- Bloodied and Healing Surges.

SNIP

I actually do a fair amount of this with Action Points. Basically, I give the PCs 1-2 APs at the start of the session, and will reward up to 1 more for good roleplaying during the session (like, REALLY good roleplaying). They have 3 possible uses (you pick one at the time you spend the AP):

1. Immediate action; heal you for 1/2 of your normal max hp
2. Free action; give you an extra action that round (swift, move, standard)
3. Auto-succeed one roll you make (attack, crit confirmation roll, save, skill check, ability check)

I also use 4e design principles for crafting my monsters. Short-version is that I give them a little more HP on average (unless I"m using minions, then they act like 4e minions), and trim down their abilities and attacks into a suite of 2-6 "powers". An example of a goblin cleric of Orcus taken from the Necromancer Games module, Lost City of Barakus (plz don't sue me; this is a modified character!):

Grezzo, male goblin cleric of Orcus 4; CR 4
Small humanoid (goblinoid)
===
Aura: Protection from Good; hedges out good outsider or summoned creatures
HP 56
AC 21, Touch 15, Flat-footed 18; +2 vs. good attacks
Fort +8, Ref +3, Will +7
Speed 5
===
:bmelee: Smiting Mace (standard, at-will)
+9 melee; d6+5 damage
:ranged: Light Crossbow (standard, at-will)
+6 ranged, d8/19-20 damage
:melee: Inflict Moderate Wounds (standard, at-will)
+6 melee touch; 2d8+4 damage; Fort DC 14 for half
:ranged: Hold Person (standard; recharge 5, 6)
Range 12; target makes Will DC 16 or becomes paralyzed (save ends)
:close: Cause Fear (standard, encounter)
Close blast 3 x 3 squares; All targets are shaken for 1 round; targets must make a Will DC 17 or become frightened for 1d4 rounds.
Squirrely Lil' Bastard (immediate; when missed by a melee attack)
The goblin can take a free 5-foot step.
===
AL LE, Languages: Common, Goblin
Skills: Concentration +8
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 16, INt 10, Wis 15, Cha 10
Equip: +1 light mace, light crossbow w/ 15 bolts, breastplate, light wooden shield, potion of cure mod wounds (2d8+4)


For full-round attacks, I just do something like this:

:bmelee: Dogslicer (standard; at will)
+9 melee; 1d6+1/19-20 damage.
:melee: Shield Wall (full-round; at will)
Makes 1 Dogslicer attack, followed by a Shield Bash.
· Secondary Attack: Shield Bash +4 melee; d6+2 and target is pushed 1 square and must make a Reflex save (DC 14) or be knocked prone.


I use 4E language whenever possible because it's easier for me to read and comprehend quickly in the midst of combat. But I still use mostly 3E ranges, DCs, durations, areas of effect, etc.

You'll notice I took out all feats (any that affected his game stats were simply factored in), tossed out his spell list (any spells I assumed would be pre-cast were factored in), and I cranked up his attack bonuses just a tad (usually I add +1/2 level or so).

My enemies definitely are tougher than the CR would suggest, but I sorta eyeball it so that it's more like a CR appropriate creature is a tough encounter, rather than a standard encounter. And I don't send them up against anything more than 2 or 3 CRs above their level, tops (kinda like 4e, oddly enough). To counter this, I often reduce enemies' versatility, slow them down a little (for creatures that have like a 150' fly speed, like dragons), or make some of their nastier attacks dependent on their last nasty ones hitting...i.e., make it a secondary attack that requires a weaker "basic" attack (like a simple claw or bite attack) to hit before it can even be attempted.

Not sure if that makes a lot of sense, but I've been running like this for about 3 or 4 sessions and it's been awesome. Combats have been more dynamic, more edge-of-your-seat, and easier for me to keep track of. It takes me like 15 minutes to build a badguy or two, as opposed to 30+ min before.

All of this could completely break at high levels though, so know that I've only been doing this during levels 3 and 4 so far.
 
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timbannock

Hero
Supporter
Maybe it's worth noting that I have 5-6 players, 1 NPC who's been with them from the start, they have warhorses (obviously only usable in certain environments), and 2 of my players are very experienced with making highly effective characters, and they and I freely help out the less experience players to maximize their characters.

Anyway, the point being that my jacked-up monsters are way too nasty for the "typical" 4 player team.
 

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