D&D 5E What proportion of the population are adventurers?

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
I am not talking about that, "adventuring" being a job.

I mean something like the tavern owner/barkeep is an old human, who was in wars and quested in his younger days, acquiring his fortune and building his tavern for his retirement. Does he have "fighter" levels or do you just make him up as an NPC with multiattack and maybe some other features, give him XX HP, etc.?

In prior editions, you might make him a 7th level fighter, but in 5E the trend is to just make him up with whatever abilities you want.
 

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NotAYakk

Legend
I'd use the "Veteran" stat block if he was supposed to still be a capable combatant. If he's getting old and slow, downgrade to "Guard".

Champion (CR 9)
Gladiator (CR 5)
Knight (CR 3)
Veteran (CR 3)
Bandit Captain (CR 2)
Guard (CR 1/8)

That covers a pretty good spectrum of capability. Can fiddle with them if they don't quite work.

CR 9 Champion is super-heroic already, the best fighter the world has known sort of thing.

Above Champion, you are going to need a serious excuse why you are superhuman, like a Death Knight, or a 1000 year old elven Bladesinger.

You'll note that many of those monsters have abilities that line up with PC abilities, but they aren't PCs.
 
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NotAYakk

Legend
Wheel of Time had fate manipulated and manipulating people very very rare ones called Ta'veren an official in game world this is a PC.
Sure, that is one option.

In the campaign I'm working on, the PCs for relatively mundane reasons stumble across something that will change the world, and changes them as well (that is the climax of the T1 plot); it requires a slight early railroad (well, really, a bunch of trains that take different routes to the same destination).

T2/3/4 then consists of the consequences of that early "chance event" playing out.

Civilization holds back the monsters through ritual magic and (when required) armies. High level spells are cast by mages by having found precious spell scrolls from a previous age, and destroying them in an attempt to cast it. Few mages exist that can imprint even a fireball spell on their own brains, and they aren't fools who go wandering into dank holes in the ground.
 


Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Sure, that is one option.

In the campaign I'm working on, the PCs for relatively mundane reasons stumble across something that will change the world, and changes them as well (that is the climax of the T1 plot); it requires a slight early railroad (well, really, a bunch of trains that take different routes to the same destination).
brains, and they aren't fools who go wandering into dank holes in the ground.
Them trains are FATE, ie the fated hero's is a very legendary and mythic explanation and not like its a new thing I just thought the gameworld having a name for it was interesting myself.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Not sure if this was quoted in the thread, but I found this article after someone liked an old post of mine and reminded me of this thread.

From Jericho to Tokyo: World's Largest Cities Through History.

I was researching this question recently in doing world-building for a novel. It is worth noting that we've had several pre-modern cities over a million: At its height, Rome was estimated at 1.2 million. Hangzhou in 1300 AD in China was 1.5 million.

Medieval and Renaissance Europe cities cap out at around 2-300,000, but the largest cities in the Islamic world could be over half a million, and in China over a million. The point being, it isn't completely outrageous to think that a pre-modern city could be well over a million, especially if supported by magic (e.g. incinerating waste).

Yep just people being personally clean and keeping fairly sanitary homes improves the possible numbers dramatically.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Good post @Mercurius , with a lot of thought put into it.

Just a few notes and observations...
World Population of D&D Campaign Worlds
The world population in 1500 AD is estimated to have been about 450 million. That's the high Renaissance - which seems to be about the level of most D&D kitchen sink campaign worlds, or at least like the Renaissance, portions of D&D worlds have that level of technological and society development. But different campaign worlds would have different population levels. Looking at Earth again, we could consider different eras and their respective populations:

Early Industrial (1800 AD): 1 billion​
Renaissance (1500 AD): 450 million​
Early Middle Ages (1000 AD): 250 million​
Late Antiquity (500 BC): 100 million​
Early Antiquity (2500 BC): 20 million​
Late Neolithic (5000 BC): 5 million​

So the first thing one would have to do is decide which best suits their world's basic societal era. I would think that the Forgotten Realms would be closer to Early Industrial population level, considering the existence of multiple races, the Underdark, and greater population density than Earth (i.e. there are few vast areas with little population, unless vast regions of Earth during the Renaissance).

A points-of-light or low fantasy, Sword & Sorcery style world might have 20 million or less. It really depends upon the world.
The variable this ignores, however, is magic. Life expectancy is the biggest cause of population growth/shrinkage after resource availability, and magic could both extend it (via curative and support magics) and reduce it (by making it easier to kill lots of people at once). How a society approaches and-or regulates magic will make a big difference to that society's growth rate, and thus to that of the world as a whole.

This also means that by the time you get to Early Industrial you're diverging rapidly from the real world, as some if not all of that industry would be replaced with magic (particularly if the setting denies the existence or creation of gunpowder or similar, as many do).

Never mind direct life-extension magics which, though rare, can make a difference; as can progression into immortality and-or intelligent undeadness.

Prevalence of Leveled Characters
But even if taking the latter approach, we must remember that a level implies a degree of training. A farmer who serves in the militia during the occasional orc attack is not a fighter, but a warrior. Class = training. This doesn't mean that training has to be rare, but it is significant.
You're assuming that training has to come from someone else, right? But what about self-training?

The farmer in the militia who gets a taste for it and spends every evening practicing on her own with sword and bow is almost inevitably going to learn some things from doing so. The lone woodsman who eventually learns enough about woodscraft (probably through trial and painful error!) is going to slowly become a low-grade Ranger. And so on.

Spellcasting classes are different. I could see a Cleric self-training with guidance from its deity, or a spontaneous caster self-training with guidance from its patron or whatever; but book mages are probably out of luck - they'd need external training.

Given all that...


Very Common (1-in-10 or more): A lot of folks pick up levels, whether because the world is dangerous and training is common, or because it is just that kind of world. Or imagine it this way: if you interact with a dozen people in a day, one or two of them are leveled.​
Common (1-in-100): Leveled characters are plentiful, with most villages have one or even a few, a handful in every town, dozens in small cities, hundreds in larger cities.​
...my world would probably be somewhere between these two on average, though the actual numbers would vary widely depending on culture. For example it's quite possible that 3 Elves out of every 4 are levelled now or have been at some point during their lives, where it's also possible that of a community of 1000 Hobbits you'd be lucky to find one with any levels at all.

Distribution by Level/Tiers of Play
But a simple way to address this question would be to ask: For every one "legendary" character (level 17-20), how many paragons, heroes, and apprentice adventurers are there? Is it 1 to 10 to 100 to 1000? Or is it more like 1 to 100 to 10,000 to one million?

I would posit three ranges:
Soft (x10): 1 to 10 to 100 to 1000​
Moderate (x50): 1 to 50 to 2500 to 125,000​
Hard (x100): 1 to 100 to 10,000 to 1,000,000​

One, albeit formulaic, approach is to imagine that the amount of leveled characters that ever make it to the next level is half. Meaning, of a 100 1st level characters, 50 make it to 2nd, 25 to 3rd, maybe a dozen to 4th, six to 5th, three to 6th, or two to 7th, and one or none to 8th or higher. If we extrapolate from one 20th level character for every level, and then add up the tier totals, we get the following:

For every 1 20th level character, there are 15 total level 17-20 characters, 1008 level 11-16 characters, 64512 level 5-10 characters, and 983040 level 1-4 characters. Or to put it another way, only about one in every 65,000 1st level characters make it to 20th level. That doesn't seem that far-fetched, if you think about it.

But you could also imagine a "softer" progression. Maybe a greater percentage make it to higher levels.
The one factor that really blows up all these sort of formulae (and I've yet to see or think of a mathematical workaround) is - of all things - PC adventuring parties and, if such exist, their NPC counterparts.

Why is this? Because a typical adventuring party, along with any associates, represents a number of people all rising together in level in a rather short time; and the presence of that "bubble" at any level throws off all the numbers. So if your played party of 5 PCs make it to 20th level you've now got 6/65000 rather than 1/65000; and this forces the question of how many other parties have done this in the setting's history and of those, how many members yet survive.

Further, and this would come down to individual DM preference in some ways, in order to challenge your 19th-level PCs and get 'em to 20th there always has to be a bigger fish; and not every DM wants to look off-world to find said fish. This means that there's likely to be a number of very high level people out there who are villains-in-waiting: mad wizards, liches, small-w warlords, etc., and these have to be factored in as well.

My incomplete thoughts on this lead me to conclude that the shape of the distribution isn't a nice neat triangle with low level at the bottom and high at the top, but more like a beaker: triangular-ish at the bottom but morphing into almost a narrow tapering tube or cylinder at the top, with a very high upper extreme.

Put another way, while at lower levels 1 of every 2 (or even 2 of every 3 at extremely low level) might drop off per level, at higher levels (in 5e, I'd guess 10th+) the dropoff rate might be more like 1 in 3 and by 15th you might only lose 1 in 10. Game mechanics would expect a significant dropoff between 20th and 21st, but from there it's open-ended (aside: I don't believe in hard level caps in any system) to aloow for levelled entities powerful enough to be a challenge for those 19th-level PCs. :)
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
I'd use the "Veteran" stat block if he was supposed to still be a capable combatant. If he's getting old and slow, downgrade to "Guard".

Champion (CR 9)
Gladiator (CR 5)
Knight (CR 3)
Veteran (CR 3)
Bandit Captain (CR 2)
Guard (CR 1/8)

That covers a pretty good spectrum of capability. Can fiddle with them if they don't quite work.

CR 9 Champion is super-heroic already, the best fighter the world has known sort of thing.

Above Champion, you are going to need a serious excuse why you are superhuman, like a Death Knight, or a 1000 year old elven Bladesinger.

You'll note that many of those monsters have abilities that line up with PC abilities, but they aren't PCs.
If they line up with PC abilities, why not in the name of internal consistency just build them as if they were PCs?

That said, the game does need a viable system for how to represent declining skills from a non-used class. This one works for warrior-types, as do some others I've seen and-or come up with; but I've yet to see or think up anything that works well for casters.
 

NotAYakk

Legend
If they line up with PC abilities, why not in the name of internal consistency just build them as if they were PCs?

That said, the game does need a viable system for how to represent declining skills from a non-used class. This one works for warrior-types, as do some others I've seen and-or come up with; but I've yet to see or think up anything that works well for casters.
First, they don't line up with PC abilities perfectly.

Second, because I want them not to line up with PC abilities perfectly.

I may go and steal a PC ability and put it on a creature. I may even steal a bunch to make it feel similar. But I don't want NPCs to be constrained by PC build and ability management.

PCs are built to be managed by a single human each. NPCs and monsters usually aren't; a DM is running a bunch of them at once.

For example, bear totem barbarian rage. It is far easier for me to just double a monster's HP to reflect that.

On top of that, story based. I don't want the PC to be "just another X". Having NPC mages take a decade to master a spell, while the PC wizard does it overnight, is a good thing as far as I am concerned. This also frees up a bunch of worldbuilding consistency problems.

I want my NPCs to use recognizable spells and techniques PCs can get access to, but I don't want them built as PCs.
 

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