What rule system am i looking for?

I dislike games with an active defence as its a pointless excercise and 1 roll too many

BUT

if you want to use it, you can in DND 4E

take the monsters attack bonus and add 20
This the DC of the AC roll (or fort, etc) the PC needs to make

Monster has +10 to hit and needs to Hit AC 22....monster needs to roll a 12
Active defence:
PC has to make an AC roll of (10+20). ie 30...he AC is 22...therefore needs to roll an 8....

chance to hit remains the same
If the PC rolls a 1 on his defence roll, he is critted
 

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...though I recall not being a fan of the initiative or dicepool system .

I know a lot of people balk at the New World of Darkness for destroying the universe of oWoD, but it does fix both of those problems. Dicepools are now easily calculated, and initiative is as simple as D&D 3e. It also has a "just mortals" book, the core book. Not a lot of material for doing a period piece, but if you swap out a couple of skills (computer, drive, maybe science) then you've got a fine system for any occasion. They recently released a source book for running Vampire during the late Roman Empire, and it has almost no rules changes whatsoever. You would be a bit hard-pressed to provide your playyers with a big list of period weapons and armor, however.

The magic system, assuming you'd use Mage, has all kinds of consequences for using magic badly--paradoxes that summon demonic entities from the Abyss, scar the caster for life, etc.--but smart mages can stay subtle and safe, mainly. It is enormously deep, though.

So, examining nWoD from your criteria:

  1. A sense of simulation that allows for handwaving but does not assume it. Pretty much. Mostly it's all down to ad-hoc penalties, though. Mage in particular can be very nitty-gritty, but more in a gamist sense than simulationist.
  2. Math is fast. Roll a handful of dice, look for anything bigger than an 8.
  3. Defender gets to actively roll to defend from being attacked. There are fighting styles and particular tactics (especially Mage spells) that supernaturals can use, but most defenses are passive.
  4. Characters can grow in power to fight armies. No, definitely not. The most powerful characters in nWoD destroy armies from their living rooms, not from the battlefield.
  5. Lots of minis without using lots of time.You could. It's not specifically written for minis, but I've seen them used.
  6. Being hit is bad, not assumed. The hits you don't dodge or soak should hurt. Very much so. Getting sliced with a sword will incapacitate or kill most of the time, and getting wounded to any significant degree makes further harm much more likely.
  7. Any hit could kill but probably won’t unless the attacker outclasses the foe, in which case the foe probably will die. That's the case here. All damage is a matter of how many successes the attacker gets, so a good defense makes an attack less forceful, but a good attacker will usually kill someone not specializing in defense.
  8. “Damage” is easy to track, but specific injuries are possible. Easy and fun! Taking damage can easily lead to gaining a flaw, like bad vision or a permanent limp.
  9. Falling hurts. Oh yes. A fall of 30+ yards is an almost guaranteed kill for anyone.
  10. Magic is hazardous to the wielder.Dangerous only to mages who go asking for trouble. Spells are covert or vulgar, and vulgar ones (flashy, physics-destroying spells) are likely to backfire. It's also more dangerous when performed in front of non-mages, called Sleepers.
  11. Magic is not an “I Win” button or a guaranteed success.It's an "I Win" button in investigations. Mages are ultimate detectives, at least in their chosen fields of study, and woe-betide the GM who tries to keep information out of their hands. In most other situations, magic only aids the mage's mundane skill set.
  12. Character power not tied to gear. Gear is almost non-existant in nWoD. Characters can invest in Resources and buy anything they like, but it's not going to fix all of their problems.
 
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I would go Savage worlds. It has a lot of what you need. I must admit I have not played it much but I am about to start a campaign and I have been reading the rules for a few weeks now.


1 A sense of simulation that allows for handwaving but does not assume it.
I think SW is not a strong simulator, but it is fast and quite logical. The thing I like about the combat is the players can think of neat things to do (tricks) that can 'feel' like a sim, but in reality it has a simple core rule that encourages the player to describe the action in detail.


2. Math is fast.
Yes very fast.

3. Defender gets to actively roll to defend from being attacked.
Not so much here. There is an option to try a full defense action, which allows the player to roll for his defense, but it is only usefull in some situations, and the player can not move that turn. But the option is there and useful in certain situations.

4. Characters can grow in power to fight armies.
More as a leader, not really single handedly. Even at a early level you can comand squads of people. There are mass combat rules also.

5. Lots of minis without using lots of time.
Check, mini use is encouraged and the combat is relatively fast.

6. Being hit is bad, not assumed. The hits you don't dodge or soak should hurt.
Check on this too, you get three hits, each hit drops your ability to fight. But on the plus side, most NPC's only get one hit before they are out.

7. Any hit could kill but probably won’t unless the attacker outclasses the foe, in which case the foe probably will die.
Yes, for every 4 points damage over the targets toughness results in a wound. So you can get four wounds in one shot, especially with a large weapon or luck dice rolls (dice explode. Meaning on a roll of the die's max value, you get to roll it again and add them. So if you have a d6, and roll a 6 you roll again. If you get a 6 again you get to roll again, if you get a 1 you add them up for a total of 13 points off of a 'single' d6)

8. “Damage” is easy to track, but specific injuries are possible.
Yes only 3 wounds, easy to track, there can be called shots, and if you are incapacitated you can have a lasting injury.

9 Falling hurts
A bit. In SW normals will die from a 30 feet drop but it is unlikely a hero will.(A 10 yard fall is 2d6+5 points of damage. An average hero's toughness is 5-6 so a drop of 10 yards will cause 2 wounds on average. )But that can be solved by decreasing the fall increment from 5 points per 10 yards to 5 points per 20 feet! Up to you.

10 Magic is hazardous to the wielder.
I have not read the magic rules, so this I don't know.

11 Magic is not an “I Win” button or a guaranteed success.
See 10. :)

12 Character power not tied to gear.
Nope not unless you give them very cool gear.

Hope this helps.

JesterOC

p.s. OK I did some more math (well simulation more like it) on the falling damage issue (for my own curiosity). Turns out that on average a 30 foot fall will kill a PC 5% of the time (like rolling a 1 on a d20). However they will always be shaken (which means they can't move until they recover) and most of the time they will have two wounds.

This does NOT account for Bennies (a limited resource that PC's can use to soak up damage). So in actual play the chance of a PC dieing from a 30 foot fall is less.
 
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I'll say HERO. It meets all of the criteria.

I know, I know- "What about all the math?"

Almost all of the math is in PC creation. Once that's over, its just rolling dice and counting totals.

Magic is as hazardous as you want it to be.
 


Actually, that sounds a lot like HarnMaster 3 to me — especially the bits about damage that hurts, being outclassed by an opponent typically ending in death, and a heavy emphasis on Sim with the ability to hadnwave things.
 


Of recent I have been playing warhammer and looking at SavageWorlds & True20, but I don't know a lot of what is out there. If i was looking for the following qualities, which ruleset comes the closest?


  1. A sense of simulation that allows for handwaving but does not assume it.
  2. Math is fast.
  3. Defender gets to actively roll to defend from being attacked.
  4. Characters can grow in power to fight armies.
  5. Lots of minis without using lots of time.
  6. Being hit is bad, not assumed. The hits you don't dodge or soak should hurt.
  7. Any hit could kill but probably won’t unless the attacker outclasses the foe, in which case the foe probably will die.
  8. “Damage” is easy to track, but specific injuries are possible.
  9. Falling hurts
  10. Magic is hazardous to the wielder.
  11. Magic is not an “I Win” button or a guaranteed success.
  12. Character power not tied to gear.

I'd say True20 comes closest - a few tweaks makes it fulfill all those things. For example, you can always ROLL Defense (which includes separate bonuses for Parry and Dodge) instead of assuming the base 10. A level 20 character is generally good enough that they make a difference on a battlefield, although I think True20 caters a little closer to realism (an army comes with heavy weaponry and those generally take down anyone, regardless of level in True20).

A quick change in rules for Magic to make it more Hazardous is to change a failure to do non-lethal damage instead of giving fatigue. That means a magic-wielder can continue to push themselves more often than with fatigue, but it affects them physically.
 

True 20 would work pretty well.

Mutants and Masterminds can do all of this too.
For magic, simply require flaws such as Side-Effect on all spells. Also, keep an eye on spells to keep the powerful / broken combinations from coming into play.

Both systems assume that if you don't soak a hit well then it hurts a lot. Even if you take it pretty well, it makes it harder to take more hits (fail by less than 5).
 


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