What rules don't work?

[jeffh]

HARP is still "unrealistic" in that I can stab someone with a dagger, deal a moderate amount of "damage" and the guy could still walk away, go grab a bite at a restaurant, maybe chat with his buddies at the bar, hit the sac, and by fine by morning. I'm not sure I want to play a game written for and by medical doctors. That would be a little overwhelming. But a little realism goes a long way in my book.

You say that as though the scenario you describe wasn't possible in real life.

 

[palleomortis]

I personally think the ones that kill you kinda suck.

 

[jeffh]

Oh, here's another rule I don't care for all that much: if the average guy (Str 10, bab +0) starts punching a door or a 5'x5' section of the ground, there is a 20% chance that he'll miss.

And if he's standing right next to a stationary (but not magically held) person in plate who is unaware that he's there, he has a lot more than a 20% chance to miss.

What's misleading is the term "miss"; what it really means is "fail to deal appreciable damage". This is no different in your example than in normal combat.

(Granted, objects have hardness to cover some of that ground as well. Perhaps the guy in plate should too. I'm not saying the abstraction is perfect, but it's not as flawed as you make it out to be.)

 

[Elemental]

Just sticking my head in here about the White Wolf system -- while I do like that things get harder when you get hurt, those negatives KILL in White Wolf. It didn't really make combat more intense for me, it felt like if I got even nicked, things would escalate into a dead character in one round. Granted, this is with my WW knowledge being before the recent revamp, but being reduced to one die on a Dex + Dodge versus a healthy guy's five successes, and one die to try and soak that damage, it's very hard to stay alive if you get hit once. In running White Wolf, I found myself very often lying about the damage successes my villains had because the players took two hard hits and were scrambling to get away with a -5 dice pool penalty.

Now, if they've changed this and cleaned it up in the recent books, feel free to completely ignore me.

Pardon? Health in WW (the pre-relaunch system) goes as one lost health level that gives you no penalty, two that give you -1, two that give you -2 and one that gives you -4 after which you're unconscious or dying. You can't get worse than that except with certain 'this attack cripples the target' supernatural effects. They don't stack, if that's where you got the -5 total from.

Also, any character can spend a Willpower point to ignore wound penalties for a round, allowing for a heroic action or a turn of unimpaired fleeing.

 

[sniffles]

What's misleading is the term "miss"; what it really means is "fail to deal appreciable damage". This is no different in your example than in normal combat.

That's a really good point - the terminology leads to a misperception of the effect. But I guess if they'd stopped calling it AC they'd have to stop calling the rules system D&D.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Except that the 8th level fighter is being compared to the erinyes while the fighter is properly equipped with magical gear appropriate to his level. That evens things up a fair bit.

If you can get the fighter anywhere close to the erinyes with the gear that he gets, I'd seriously like to know how you did it, because I don't think you can.

 

[Conaill]

In your experiences, what rules are you dissatisfied about, because they don't feel right?

Let's see... classes, levels, hit points, Vancian magic...

Those are the main ones.

 

[SamhainIA]

underwater combat, or for that matter any rules on three dimensional combat underwater or flying (Burrowing comes to mind with Asherati also). The system based on reach, 5' steps, AoOs starts to break down, but underwater it gets even worse, Drowning is a serious hazard to any level of character, spells by all common sense dont work the way they should ( i e fireball, lightning bolt), certain magic items not working as well (try drinking a potion underwater!), weapons shoukld also have differnt stats underwater and some should be ineffective and some more effective ( like a sling or any other bludgeoning weapon vs the harpoon)

my 2cp
--samhain

 

[Particle_Man]

Barbarian's Rage - the *only* class ability that is inherently lethal. It's impossible for a Barbarian to get have a dramitic, down-to-the-wire knock-down-drag-out fight with an enemy, both down to the last hit point, simply because the Barbarian is automatically dead at this point if he doesn't have some kind of magical healing. Our group's barbarian has died 4 or 5 times because of this... it's gotten to the point that he never rages anymore.

Note that the Barbarian does not stop raging when he goes unconscious, so that might help. Of course, then someone has to get him healed pretty darn fast...

I prefer the variant rage from Unearthed Arcana. Alternatively one could give the barb a +2 fort save and +2 temporary hp/lvl, instead of +4 con.

 

[Samuel Leming]

One rule change I would like to see - I think fighters should be given more class skill options (not skill points). Fighters are usually backed by a culture, and all but the dumbest fighters would probably have some skill in diplomacy, for instance, seeing as how historical fighter cultures put such a premium on courtesy and formality - those who didn't probably got killed in duels. I'm not saying all skills - such as spelling - just the ones that make sense for the culture. And innuendo? I'm sorry they took that away in 3.5, I'm not sure if I would have given it to fighters anyway.

Good job, Gizmo!

Sam