D&D 4E What should the next new official campaign setting for 4e be like?

[huank]

In my opinion Ravenloft would be the best choice, but apparently (for what I have read in the new previews) the Shadowfell has a little bit of “Ravenloftness” on it, let's see if this is true. But, anyway, I would like to see a campaign setting where war is all over the place and that huge armies play an important role (I don't know, but maybe Birthright was something like this). Rules for managing huge armies in 4e would be nice (or are they out already?).

 

[Ryujin]

Yes, an Indian setting would definitely be awesome. I'm certainly hoping that the sea-faring setting would actually happen, because it's a great type of fantasy they haven't done yet.

Something along the lines of the sea-faring setting idea would be a welcome change. Perhaps something like Ursula K. Le Guin's "Earthsea"? I find the idea of wizards plying the seas, by speaking the name of the winds into their sails, rather compelling as a campaign setting.

 

[Bluenose]

Yes, an Indian setting would definitely be awesome. I'm certainly hoping that the sea-faring setting would actually happen, because it's a great type of fantasy they haven't done yet.

South-East Asia and the islands. That great crossroads between China and India, influenced by both but different from both. Every island a separate country, some with a jungle hinterland that has hardly been explored. Trading ships, pirates, wars at sea. Monarchs and merchant princes and pirate chiefs and warlords. I want yuan-ti temples under the cities where they plot to sieze power, elven sea-pirates who never set foot on land, dwarves whose mountain citadels are connected to the coastal cities by tunnels so they never have to set foot in the drow-infested jungles, warrior-caste dragonborn swaggering through the streets.

And I'd like an Indian setting too.

 

[Dausuul]

First of all, no more 2E retreads. I realize there's a lot of nostalgia here and WotC is trying to target the grognard demographic, but the marginal value of bringing back one old setting after another is pretty low if you ask me. How many grognards are going to abandon their Pathfinder or their retro-clones to come to 4E because "Now we've got Ravenloft?" Meanwhile, they're missing an opportunity to bring something new and unique and compelling to 4E, something to get the existing player base fired up again.

Up until now, every D&D edition has had a signature setting, one that was created for that edition and really brought out its strengths and the mindset behind it. OD&D had Blackmoor; BECMI had the Known World; 1E had Greyhawk; 2E had Planescape*; 3E had Eberron. 4E has so far produced nothing but recycled content from previous editions, the Nentir Vale (which is fine as far as it goes but hardly constitutes a full-fledged world), and the vaguely implied setting that has come to be known as PoL-Land.

So, what kind of setting would best showcase 4E's strengths? Several folks have suggested a seafaring island-world, and I think that's a great idea. The disconnected, compartmentalized approach is central to 4E's design philosophy, and an island setting has that built right in. Every island is its own little universe, and you can easily calibrate them for different tiers of adventuring--a close-knit group of relatively civilized islands for Heroic tier, a surrounding band of more isolated and dangerous islands for Paragon, and a handful of strange and magical realms in the deepest, darkest ocean for Epic.

[size=-2]*Choosing a signature setting for 2E is tough, given the number of options, but I think Planescape came nearest the core of what 2E was. To some extent, the sheer variety and depth of 2E settings was that edition's signature; 2E put setting front and center, more than any edition before or since.[/size]

 

[moxcamel]

I always thought the signature setting for AD&D was Dragonlance. I didn't much care for it, prefering my own home-brewed world, but they sold a lot of dead trees in both game supplements and novels.

But anyhoo...

I think the problem with yet another setting is dilution. Just in terms of 4e alone, we have: Dark Sun, Eberron, Nentir Vale, and Forgotten Realms (plus Neverwinter), not to mention some less-defined settings such as the city of Sigil, the shadowfell, and very likely Ravenloft in the near future. The possibilities available with those settings alone are pretty huge.

If I'm a product manager, I'm looking at any proposal for a new setting and worrying maybe just a wee bit about losing our focus. Looking back to TSR, settings such as Al Qadim, Oriental Adventures, Hollow World, and Maztica, they were all pretty interesting settings, but they never got any traction. I think one big reason was that because most Western gamers have very specific ideas about their role-playing games, which can mostly be served with settings such as Eberron and Forgotten Realms. Anything else is going to have, I believe, diminishing returns. I'm not saying that a campaign setting based on non-traditional forms wouldn't be really cool, but I just don't think there's a big enough market to support it. It's why I suggested mini world "modules" earlier. At least that would give DMs a push without having all the development and support costs of a hardback plus supplements.

Fortunately, just about every idea mentioned here could be supported in the existing settings. Eberron would be fantastic for nautical/pirate adventures. Indian and Asian campaigns can be set in Forgotten Realms (where the original Maztica and Oriental Adventures were set). And for the "water world" idea...well, do you really need a published setting for that? Make a local area map, drop in some islands, do some minor world building, done.

I'm a huge fan of alternate settings, but I think these are best left to either 3rd party developers or creative DMs. I'd rather WotC focus on their core campaign worlds and non-world specific supplements.

 

[Dausuul]

I always thought the signature setting for AD&D was Dragonlance. I didn't much care for it, prefering my own home-brewed world, but they sold a lot of dead trees in both game supplements and novels.

Mm... more novels than supplements, I think. Dragonlance started out as a series of D&D adventures, but the novels soon came to dominate the line. I never had the impression that the setting was a big draw as far as gaming went, although it had its adherents and still does.

If one measures strictly on popularity, of course, Forgotten Realms walks away with it. I'm fairly sure neither Greyhawk nor Dragonlance ever held a candle to FR in terms of sheer player mass. But Greyhawk was the "core" setting, the one whose influence pervaded the rest of the game. Look at all the PHB spells named after Greyhawk mages, for example. What were (still are) the most well-known artifacts in the game? Vecna's Eye and Hand. Little bits of Greyhawk flavor were everywhere.

I think the problem with yet another setting is dilution. Just in terms of 4e alone, we have: Dark Sun, Eberron, Nentir Vale, and Forgotten Realms (plus Neverwinter), not to mention some less-defined settings such as the city of Sigil, the shadowfell, and very likely Ravenloft in the near future. The possibilities available with those settings alone are pretty huge.

I see your point, but at the same time, I think 4E is really in need of an infusion of new creative energy on the "fluff" side, and I would like to see a setting not shackled to the ghost of TSR (or for that matter Keith Baker). You suggest, for instance, a pirate-themed sub-setting of Eberron for the "island world" concept; but I at least would never buy that, because I don't have any interest in Eberron.

And even if I did, Eberron's been done already. The thing I think WotC has forgotten about D&D is that firing the imagination of players and DMs is crucial to the long-term success of the brand. And that demands new material from time to time, not just old stuff warmed over. Dark Sun was my all-time favorite setting back in the 2E days, I was very happy when they released it for 4E, but y'know what? It doesn't inspire me now the way it did back then. I've been there and done that.

It's also worth keeping in mind that part of what sank TSR was the insistence on supporting a bajillion settings, with lines of adventures and supplemental material for each one. WotC has largely avoided that, so I think they have room to branch out a bit. I might never run a campaign in the "island world" setting (I'm too wedded to homebrewing), and I'd be highly unlikely to buy a lot of sourcebooks for it... but I'd buy the boxed set just to read through it and see what it had going on.

 

[Incenjucar]

I tend to agree with Dausuul. I have little interest in getting deep into any one world (unless the writing and style is incredible, as I found Planescape to be), but a campaign setting that is stand-alone while introducing a host of new ideas and rules that can be used in other settings is always welcome. As a homebrewer, a high seas setting with many rules on life above and below the waves would be an instant purchase even if I had zero interest in the actual SETTING itself. If WotC puts out a world/idea and enough people scream for more, then they have good reason to put out additional material so long as it continues to pay off, one at a time, as demand demands.

 

[Tortoise]

Skimming through this thread got me thinking that we don't need a new setting. What we could really use is abbreviated setting ideas that can then be added to and expanded on. Something to feed the idea mill for DMs and players alike.

They can easily do something like this in Dungeon and Dragon, the format lends itself to doing such a thing. Besides, similar things used to pop up in the old print mags and I always found those articles inspirational.

If they would then take some of the more interesting stuff from forum discussions about what is in the mags, reformat/clean it up and put it into the mags, it would be a good way to fill space while generating more discussion and interest.

The ideas don't need to be for whole settings either. Simply something that can be dropped into other settings. Regional ideas, or city ideas, or even parts of a city.

Feed DM and player creativity and in turn that will result on the WotC coffers being fed. Help the DMs and that helps keep players involved and creates more of both through enthusiasm.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

When I think settings, I'm more concerned about the creatures, cultures and the way fantastic elements affect the world. While important, the geography or topography of the setting matters much less to me, unless you're talking about a setting where the world IS the fantasy. Like Spelljammer.

I mean, an islands campaign? I like it, but I have old Judge's Guild maps full of archiapeligos. (Yes, I know that makes me special.)

What I'm trying to say is that, while maps matter, it's more important to give the customers interesting creatures for PCs and foes, some cultures that appeal and repel, and setting specific fantastical elements.

 

[Incenjucar]

Didn't the Forgotten Realms start off as a series of articles reflecting Greenwood's campaign that eventually became popular enough to becoming a full official setting? Might be a good way to approach settings in general - let people write articles until something catches on, continue writing articles until demand builds, then go for the setting book when everyone's drooling for one. If that never happens, hey, no risk taken.