What Skill is Math!?

[Vaxalon]

I'd allow the character to know mathematics as a freebie; he can know it just as well as he likes because all by itself the skill is USELESS. Let him be the best mental calculating engine of all time, if he wants, because he won't be able to do anything with it. Actually being able to do something with math always involves some other kind of skill to go with it, whether it's aiming artillery, designing buildings, or deciding on an investment strategy.

As far as the numerology is concerned, I'd ask him what he wants to be able to do with it. If he actually wants to be able to tell the future or do other mystical tasks, then he needs to have the appropriate divinatory spells, such as augury, and you can make variants that are numerological in nature.

 

[DMScott]

I'm reluctant to create yet another Knowledge (*) skill but that's what I'll do. I am kind of amazed that it isn't contained in an existing skill.

D&D follows a default implied setting corresponding to Europe from around 500 to 1500 AD, and math simply wasn't a particularly important field of knowledge in that time period (edit - in Europe, it was pretty important elsewhere). For example, the number 0 was introduced to Europe around 1200 AD, but didn't become a common part of mathematical thinking until the 1500s, and didn't get widespread acceptance until the 1600s.

As to what's appropriate, it sort of depends on what you plan to do with the skill. It sounds like you're mostly looking at arithmetic rather than higher mathematics, for which I'd agree with an intelligence check or a related profession skill to simulate a character doing arithmetic on demand. If you want a character who can invent the calculus or discover the foundations of geometry, you're looking at a specialized knowledge skill.

For a character who's a numerologist capable of accessing some actual hidden knowledge, I'd just have them use either Knowledge: Religion or Knowledge: Arcana for numerology-related checks. The idea being you as players don't care what math the character goes through to get the answer, it's just another way of accessing that hidden knowledge.

Another option is to use something like Decipher Script for cryptography-type applications. One person reads the "List of High Kings" and sees a dry recitation of dates and places, but the numerologist can break the code and access whatever true prophecy is concealed in that tome.

 

[Tsyr]

Depending on how serious the player is about the Numerology aspect, I would look into the Astrologer class from Occult Lore. It would only take rewording the flavor text to make that into a great class for a numerologist.

You know, with Knowledges, I always treated them basicly like Craft, Profession, and Perform... That is to say, there is a Knowledge skill for most anything you can think of.

 

[Argent Silvermage]

I would think that it falls under Knowledge Arcana. Remember that Math was considered an occult science long before it was in schools.

 

[Psion]

Well, I can understand why they pared down and capped the knowledge skill -- it was too easy to make too many of them.

Perhaps as a profession skill -- profession (numerate) or profession (numerologist) -- isn't there an ancient profession that deals with mathematics?

If you play d20 modern or want to match the categories, it's part of knowledge (physical sciences). Mathematics is too specific for what is currently part of a knowledge skill.

Warning: My House Rule Method Ahead

In my game, I grapple with the skill proliferation problem and keeping up the details as well by use of my skill specialty house rule.

Basically, you get one specialty per rank in the skill. You can select sub-specialties as well. So a specialty of knowledge (the planes) might be the astral, the 9 hells, the abyss, etc. Subspecialties might be specific topics within one of the specialties such as dead gods (astral), cania (9 hells), or abyssal politics (abyss).

The DM decides if a specialty is called for for a given roll. If you do not have the specialty, there is a -2 penalty (or more, at DMs discretion) per specialty you lack. OTOH, you get a +2 per applicable specialty.

So, one way to handle this is to create applicable specialties to the existing knowledge skills. For example, you might decide that knowledge (arcana) has as a field mathematics, and the character would select appropraite specialties or sub-specialties.

 

[Gez]

Basically, you get one specialty per rank in the skill.

This is also known as "3.0 Perform".

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Personally, I'd ban mathematics altogether. Some guy gets a few ranks in this skill, and before you know it he's out to prove the world is round and trying to walk on the moon.

 

[MerakSpielman]

This is also known as "3.0 Perform".

my bard specializes in Perform (mathematics)! Observe, gentle friends, how I prove that it is more likely to have 3 children of one sex and 1 of the other than it is to have 2 of each sex! [applause]Thank you, thank you...[/applause]

 

[MerakSpielman]

Personally, I'd ban mathematics altogether. Some guy gets a few ranks in this skill, and before you know it he's out to prove the world is round and trying to walk on the moon.

Of course, he might be distressed to discover that, in a fantasy setting, the world might not be round, and the moon might really be the chariot of the moon goddess.

 

[Lalato]

What about Decipher Script? I think an argument can be made for that, perhaps not a strong one, but it's an idea... and how often does Decipher Script come up anyway?

Other than that... I can see Knowledge (Science) being used as an alternative. Again... this isn't a strong candidate, but one can make a reasonable argument for it.

If the character is a Mage of some sort, you can go with Knowledge (Arcana), but it sounds like this Math/Numerology is supposed to be somehow different than normal spellcasting skills so I would avoid using normal spellcasting skills like this or Spellcraft.

That's all I have for now...
--sam