Pathfinder 1E What spells do you consider to be "breakers"???

[ZenFox42]

Ok, thanks to all the discussions I've been able to clarify the concept of "breakers", which might be better thought of as "short-circuits", or "DM headaches" :

Battle-breaker : affects multiple people, for the entire battle; not 1 round/level, not single-person (either immunity or take-down)
Story-breaker : transports many people quickly, or information instantly, especially if range is “infinite”
Mystery-breaker : gives correct information too easily, especially if range is “infinite”
Death-breaker : removes fear of death (and maybe of negative levels) from the players
Counterspell-breaker : has a limited number of options for negating or getting around the spell
Whether or not the spell has a save is not a factor!

Finally, some spells are going to be rituals just because they should take a long time and involve some risk. Plane Shift just seems like it should be more involved than taking a standard action and bam, you're there. Going to another plane of existence should be tough, and dangerous, and not something you just do on a whim.

Some mystery breakers can be worked in to the plot at higher levels. And sometimes you have to consider whether a spell is useful because it keeps a player active in the melee.

Keep in mind that some of the "breaker" labels in the following were assigned by others, not me. Also that this list is for spells that are going to become "rituals", not banned (with 2 exceptions).

* = definitely; + = probably; ? = can’t decide

* Black Tentacles (4) – battle breaker
+ Charm Monster (4) – story breaker
? Dimension Door (4) – story breaker [but can also prevent TPK]
+ Divination (4) – mystery breaker
? Freedom of Movement (4) – battle breaker
* Geas, Lesser (4) – can “dominate” for a week
? Globe of Invulnerability (4,6) – battle breaker
+ Invisibility, Greater (4) – counterspell breaker; high stealth, spellcasters can attack at long range
* Plane Shift (5|7) – just because it shouldn’t be quick&easy
* Reincarnate (4) – death breaker
* Restoration (2, 4=perm. negative level, 7) – death breaker
+ Scrying (4|5) – mystery breaker, story breaker (infinite range & auto-finds target)
+ Sending (4) – story breaker (infinite distance!)
* Solid Fog (4) – battle/counterspell breaker (severely cripples & only Gust of Wind or Dispel Magic counters)

+ Commune (5) – mystery breaker
+ Contact other plane (5) – mystery breaker
* Dominate Person (5) – total LONG TERM control
* Permanency (5) – just because it shouldn’t be quick&easy
* Planar binding (5,6,8) – just because it shouldn’t be quick&easy
* Planar Travel (5,psi) – story breaker
* Raise Dead (5) – death breaker
* Teleport (5,7) – story breaker (battle avoider, but can also prevent TPK)
? Wall of Force (5) – battle breaker, counterspell breaker

+ Circle of Death (6) – battle breaker
* Create Undead (6) – just because it shouldn’t be quick&easy
? Dispel Magic, Greater (6) – battle breaker (de-buff)
+ Wall of Iron (6) – battle breaker
* Wind Walk (6|7) – story breaker

* Resurrection (7,9) – death breaker
* Simulacrum (7) – story breaker (should probably be banned!)
* Wish, Limited (7) – everything breaker

* Antimagic Field (8) – battle breaker

* Dominate Monster (9) – total LONG TERM control
* Gate (9) – story breaker, battle breaker
* Mage’s Disjunction (9) – omni-breaker (should probably be banned!)
* Wish (9) – just because it shouldn’t be quick&easy
* Miracle (9) – just because it shouldn’t be quick&easy
* Teleportation circle (9) – story breaker
* Tsunami (9) – battle breaker
* Ride the Lightning (9) – story breaker, battle breaker, counterspell breaker

And because of the better definitions of "breakers", the following spells are NOT considered breakers anymore :

Death ward (4) – battle breaker [single effect]
Discern Lies (4) – mystery breaker [no better than good Sense Motive bonus]
Emergency Force Sphere (4) – battle breaker [short term]
Enervation (4) – battle breaker [temporary]
Locate Creature (4) – mystery breaker [400 foot range]
Resilient Sphere (4) – battle breaker, counterspell breaker [single target]
Stoneskin (4) – battle breaker [single target]
Feeblemind (5) – spellcaster breaker [single target]
Flame Strike (5) – battle breaker [small area]
Overland flight (5) – story breaker [one person]
Slay Living (5) – battle breaker (melee touch, Fort save, 12d6/3d6 + 10) [single target]
True Seeing (5) – mystery breaker [too handy for other melee things]
Disintegrate (6) – battle breaker [single target]
Forcecage (7) – battle breaker, counterspell breaker [single target, 1 rnd/lvl]
Invisibility, Mass (7) – story breaker
Energy drain (9) – battle breaker [single target]

 

[Mr.E_Danger]

As someone who uses scry and dimensional door, and shortly teleportation, just being aware of how they work makes them seem much less breaking. Take Scry for example, there's a will save to be able to scry on people. THat will save is affected by all sorts of things, from how familiar you are with the person to if you have a part of their body (hair, blood, ect...). if you're scrying on a commoner, then more than likely you can succeed. However, any PC or NPC with any decent wisdom or intelligence score will be much tougher. A prepared and smart wizard will not only have a great Will save, but will also take precautions against this being used against him/her. If the spell succeeds, what does the player get? he gets to see 10 foot radius from the person scryed upon. How useful is that? well, i enjoy using scry and i have found it useful, but you can't always tell where a person is or what he's doing just by that 10 foot radius. seeing 10 feet in all directions in the middle of a dungeon or in the middle of a wheat field only reveals that they are in the middle of a wheat field/dungeon. Not all that crazy or game breaking.

It is also important to remember that any spell your PCs can use, so can you. Is your party using teleport, scry, and other "breaking" spells to cause trouble? turn the tables on them, use those same spells, and they can see how much fun it is to deal with it.

 

[Clyde Lee Graham]

As someone who uses scry and dimensional door, and shortly teleportation, just being aware of how they work makes them seem much less breaking. Take Scry for example, there's a will save to be able to scry on people. THat will save is affected by all sorts of things, from how familiar you are with the person to if you have a part of their body (hair, blood, ect...). if you're scrying on a commoner, then more than likely you can succeed.

Not to mention that it's a mundane perception check to know that you're being scryed upon.

 

[GM_Chris]

Practically any Save or Die spell is a "breaker" against GMs. When you get to a high enough level: Polymorph to lava is.

 

[LostSoul]

As someone who uses scry and dimensional door, and shortly teleportation, just being aware of how they work makes them seem much less breaking. Take Scry for example, there's a will save to be able to scry on people. THat will save is affected by all sorts of things, from how familiar you are with the person to if you have a part of their body (hair, blood, ect...). if you're scrying on a commoner, then more than likely you can succeed. However, any PC or NPC with any decent wisdom or intelligence score will be much tougher. A prepared and smart wizard will not only have a great Will save, but will also take precautions against this being used against him/her. If the spell succeeds, what does the player get? he gets to see 10 foot radius from the person scryed upon. How useful is that? well, i enjoy using scry and i have found it useful, but you can't always tell where a person is or what he's doing just by that 10 foot radius. seeing 10 feet in all directions in the middle of a dungeon or in the middle of a wheat field only reveals that they are in the middle of a wheat field/dungeon. Not all that crazy or game breaking.

In this one game I am playing, I ran into an ancient green dragon vampire. Kind of nasty. He's not hostile, though I think that he and my PC both know that we're going to fight at some point in the future (at the moment we're somewhat allied).

I wanted to find out where his lair was, so I cast Scry on his half-orc bodyguard, not on the dragon himself. I figured that I'd have no way of getting through his SR + Save + INT check, but the fighters were easy targets. I discovered that he lairs in a demi-plane through a portal in the city.

Now the only question is how to deal with him. I am not sure if I could destroy the portal and lock him in there - and even if I could he'd probably Plane Shift out. I could use my Sphere of Annihilation to catch him when he steps out, but I'm planning on destroying that - it's far too dangerous, even though I have a Talisman of the Sphere.

In other news, my PC is being hunted by a whole crapload of high-level NPCs, so I spend all my time Mind Blank-ed, and all my nearby allies are similarly warded. Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum should protect most of the others who are helping me out - but I know that anybody who's not Mind Blank-ed can have their future read (via Divination and Commune), so I need to be extremely careful.

If my PC was just a Fighter, I don't think he'd ever have been able to get himself into this kind of trouble. Which is interesting.