What spells do you get tired of seeing wizard players take? Cliche's, etc.

[lukelightning]

Yea, those spells are a gimme. A lot of players seem to just lean on them because they don't want to be creative.

The same way that those darn fighters keep leaning on swords. How uncreative! And clerics casting healing spells? Bah, that is so cliche and unimaginative.

 

[Chimera]

Funny, my group sees more spellcasters with ray of enfeeblement and enlarge person than magic missile. From an effectiveness perspective, enlarge person can deal more damage than magic missile, especially at low levels, and ray of enfeeblement can dramatically reduce the threat posed by melee-based opponents, especially in boss fights.

RoE is one of the most feared anti-PC spells I have seen used in groups I've played in or GM'd for. People hate having their strength nerfed. Nails two-handed weapon fighters hard enough, but it is especially great against PCs with strong bows. "Oops, now you can't use it, guess you'll have to figure something else out!"

Always ends up on my list of Wizard spells.

 

[Slife]

RoE is one of the most feared anti-PC spells I have seen used in groups I've played in or GM'd for. People hate having their strength nerfed. Nails two-handed weapon fighters hard enough, but it is especially great against PCs with strong bows. "Oops, now you can't use it, guess you'll have to figure something else out!"

Always ends up on my list of Wizard spells.

And if a character gets drained down to 0 strength it acts as a buff! No end of use!

 

[sniffles]

One of my GMs has developed an absolute hatred of ray of enfeeblement.

Benign transposition is looking like another one that could drive a GM mad.

I dislike the idea that you've got to take Spell Thematics to give a special look to your spells. I think every caster's spells should look a bit different from every other caster's casting of the same spell. As an example, look at the Patronus spell from Harry Potter. It's different for each caster. I like the idea that your personality affects the visual results of your magic.

I also dislike the idea that a caster should just pick spells based on utility. I like to choose spells for my casters based on their personalities and backgrounds. Maybe my druid will never cast a fire spell, no matter how useful it is. My wizard will never add magic missile to her spellbook because she's all about booster spells, not offensive spells. I'd rather base my spell selection on roleplaying than on utility.

I've also found myself concentrating on spells from the Spell Compendium, just to add some variety, especially when there are other casters in the group.

 

[Sejs]

Benign transposition is looking like another one that could drive a GM mad.

As a DM, I love it. Love it to bits.

My players arn't too fond of it, but that's what they get for not having an arcane caster in the party.

In another game it was one of the Spells That Existed To Prove My Spells Don't Work. Heh, I was friggin' MacGyver with cantrips, but the two first level spells I had a chance to cast in the course of the adventure both failed. Color Spray? All saved. Benign Trans to get the helpless little girl away from the nasty half-giants? Turns out the little girl isn't as 'friendly' as we'd previously though. Heh.

I dislike the idea that you've got to take Spell Thematics to give a special look to your spells. I think every caster's spells should look a bit different from every other caster's casting of the same spell. As an example, look at the Patronus spell from Harry Potter. It's different for each caster. I like the idea that your personality affects the visual results of your magic.

They way I work it is if the spell is yours, you get to determine its particulars. If you're a wizard and when you hit 3rd you pick Web as one of the spells you get and you want it to manifest as a gravitic field rather than spiderwebs, be my guest. While there exists a stable of kind of generic spells, almost every caster out there puts their own personal spin on their magics. A particular trademark is one of the ways you get well known in the magical community, after all. Look at Bigby. Everyone knows Bigby. He's the hand guy. Loves hands, that Bigby.

That sort of thing.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

Still, the most effective wizards I've played (and seen played) tend to be specialist wizards who drop evocation in a hurry.

Agreed. With so many of the more dangerous monsters (fiends, dragons, etc) having SR, energy resistance, good saves, AND tons of HP, dealing damage is often the least effective way to go. Monster HP inflation has greatly outpaced Fireball and the like -- look at giants' or dragons' HP over the years, where Fireball has stayed at 1d6/level.

Given how difficult evokers have it already, those Orb spells were an absolutely horrible idea.

 

[lukelightning]

I don't care what spells the players take. Why should I try to squash a player's fun just because I think something is cliche? Take all the cliches you want and have fun with them.

Next you'll be saying that it's cliche for rogues to sneak attack.

 

[interwyrm]

I like enervation, but it is such a pain to keep track of negative levels.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Does anyone get tired of seeing...

a barbarian with a greataxe?

Yes. The last one I designed was a halfling with 2 weapon fighting, bladed gauntlets, spiked armor, and a bunch of vials of trog-stink. His venerated "totem animals" were wolverines, porcupines and skunks.

A rogue with a chain shirt?

Yes. The last one I ran topped out with studded leather.

Paladin in full plate armor?

Yes. The last one I designed came from a culture in which Full plate was a privilege of royalty, and she was the daughter of a lowly fisherman.

A dwarf with a dwarven waraxe?

Yes- I went with an Urgosh and 2 throwing axes for my last design. Before that, it was a Maul. Before that, it was paired shortswords.

A monk who takes Stunning Fist?

Not so far- I rarely get to play monks. They're usually not allowed by the DMs I play under.

I'm not trying to be a smarta$$ about it- my fatigue with D&D archetypes/stereotypes is partially because I've spent the last 10 years playing in games that were Core + Completes & the 2Ed equivalent. Add 1Ed campaigning back to 1978 and I've pretty much covered the basics.

 

[Nightfall]

Personally I'd like to see people use more of the following spells:

Left Hand of Justice, (Paladin), Corean's Fire (Fire and Cleric), Belsameth's Curse (Wiz/Sorc), Censure of Mesos (Wiz/Sor, Druid), Daggers of Vaul (Wiz/Sorc), and Vangal's Fury. (Cleric, Destruction).

Yes I'm biased.