cthulhu_duck
First Post
Emirikol said:
Wizards and spells, fighters and weapons.
What spells do you get tired of seeing wizard players take? Cliche's, etc.
- Thread starter Emirikol
- Start date
Wizards and spells, fighters and weapons.
Olaf the Stout
Legend
interwyrm said:
So basically half the spells in the PHB then?
Olaf the Stout
And I'm tired of seeing people being tired of tired of tired of threads.
Actually, the last wizard I played used many of the spells listed, but I also tried to get some different metamagic feats also to apply to them, such as Transdimensional Spell, Energy Substitution (acid or frost was my fav), and Non-lethal substitution. A fireball that takes out a group of creatures, but doesn't kill them, (saved for interrogating later) is cool. Or an acidball ex-fireball that wipes the floor is neat-o too.
Nonlethal Force
First Post
Machiavelli said:
Honestly, I think the main problem is how DMs construct their games. If your game is bent on destroying creatures to get XP ... well ... you better expect people to choose spells that are the most effective at destroying creatures. That's totally fair.
In my games, about 5% of game time is spent in combat. Yep, we got tired of combat. People still play fighters and clerics and wizards and barbarians. But we're not focused on combat that much. If you are in a game that you don't expect to get into many combats ... why take fireball? Why take MM?
I'm not criticizing anyone who does, of course. I love MM. It and the aforementioned Invisibility are the two standards of magic across all spectra. Talk about fantasy and you'd throw in Fireball, too.
DMs that are tired of seeing Fireball, be creative and make players grow into realizing that they can play in situations that don't mandate fireball or MM! It really is that simple. Your players will play according to the standard you set for them. If you want the players to change, start with yourself as the DM.
You don't expect a surgeon to operate with a scalpel anymore (and especially not a hacksaw!). You expect lasers (and often robotic guided lasers at that for really serious surgery!) A surgeon is going to choose the best tool for the job they're asked to do. Players are going to be the same. If they have to fight for their lives, they're going to pick spells that give them the best chance at that. If you want players to pick more "interesting" spells, give them a game that is more "interesting."
I don't have a problem with a group that loves combat ... and I expect to see greatswords, wands of CLW, and spell lists containing MM, Fireball, and Invisibility. I also don't have a problem with gaming groups that want to move beyond that. There's nothing wrong with either scenario!
Emirikol said:
Assume you have a new player that is playing a Wizard for the first time. Are you going to truly judge that player for chosing Fireball or Fly, or Death Spell or Wish or Teleport?
Over 20 years later, I still remember the first Fireball I cast, (against Gargoyles, rolled crappy damage, 18 points). It is a milestone, not uncreative. Most of those spells are Iconic not boring.
Players in general? No. One player in particular? Yes.
There is a guy I've been playing with since 1985. Most of his PCs (85%+) are wizards. All of his wizards have Magic Missile, Sleep, Hold Person, Invisibility, Fly, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Acid Arrow, Teleport, and so forth. I doubt that there is more than a 10% variance in the spell lists of his various mages.
No specialists, either- all generalist Mages.
Well, Grease, Shrink Item, and Color Spray spring to mind.
I've also been getting good milage out of the Orb spells, Bull's Strength (and the other stat enhancers), and Whirling Blade (with Sculpt Spell), as well as some fun with the Reach Spell feat.
To me, its seems odd that EVERY mage in the world has the same spells as 80% of their repetoir. I'm a lawyer, and while I have to be familiar with the same laws as any other lawyer in my region, most lawyers have specialties, and each of our schools teach different things (or the same subjects with differing emphasis). Thus, to my reconing, there should be variance in spell list as a result of regions, school/master/teachers, student skills, possibly even because of local laws governing the study of magic.
The cookie-cutter approach to choosing spells makes the campaign world less realistic.
For me, then, its less about efficiency & survival and more about creative PC design and having fun- adding a bit of texture to the campaign world. I want my PCs to be memorable and somehow more "person-like" than the generic efficient min-maxed PC. With the exception of Fireball, Lightning Bolt, and Acid Arrow, NONE of my mages have ever used any of the spells mentioned in this thread as being tiresome or boring...and never more than one of them.
(And, for the record, I take the same approach to building warrior types. Some of them DO use simple weapons, or Reach weapons other than the Spiked Chain, and so forth.)
There is a guy I've been playing with since 1985. Most of his PCs (85%+) are wizards. All of his wizards have Magic Missile, Sleep, Hold Person, Invisibility, Fly, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Acid Arrow, Teleport, and so forth. I doubt that there is more than a 10% variance in the spell lists of his various mages.
No specialists, either- all generalist Mages.
Well, Grease, Shrink Item, and Color Spray spring to mind.
I've also been getting good milage out of the Orb spells, Bull's Strength (and the other stat enhancers), and Whirling Blade (with Sculpt Spell), as well as some fun with the Reach Spell feat.
To me, its seems odd that EVERY mage in the world has the same spells as 80% of their repetoir. I'm a lawyer, and while I have to be familiar with the same laws as any other lawyer in my region, most lawyers have specialties, and each of our schools teach different things (or the same subjects with differing emphasis). Thus, to my reconing, there should be variance in spell list as a result of regions, school/master/teachers, student skills, possibly even because of local laws governing the study of magic.
The cookie-cutter approach to choosing spells makes the campaign world less realistic.
For me, then, its less about efficiency & survival and more about creative PC design and having fun- adding a bit of texture to the campaign world. I want my PCs to be memorable and somehow more "person-like" than the generic efficient min-maxed PC. With the exception of Fireball, Lightning Bolt, and Acid Arrow, NONE of my mages have ever used any of the spells mentioned in this thread as being tiresome or boring...and never more than one of them.
(And, for the record, I take the same approach to building warrior types. Some of them DO use simple weapons, or Reach weapons other than the Spiked Chain, and so forth.)
