Achan hiArusa
Explorer
I've heard a lot about which spells are too powerful and which spells are nerfed, but I have yet seen anyone rewrite the spells to change their level. Where would you put specifically Core spells at which level and why?
What spells would you relevel and why?
- Thread starter Achan hiArusa
- Start date
I'd start by looking at Thanee's master list of "Spells every arcane caster must learn"...and probably boost most of them at least one level. Anything that is so good that any optimized PC MUST take is probably a little too good. (I know Magic Missile and Sleep are on that list, but beyond that, I'm lost- I simply don't use many of those über-spells for my arcanists.)
I'd also de-nerf some spells- like Bull's Str and the other stat boosters- but boost them a level as well.
Those spells that everyone dumps on as being too underpowered? Drop 'em a level.
And after doing all of that? I'd lift a page from Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed/Arcana Evolved game and add the mechanics of lesser and greater forms of spells as well as superior, inferior, and alternative components.
I'd also de-nerf some spells- like Bull's Str and the other stat boosters- but boost them a level as well.
Those spells that everyone dumps on as being too underpowered? Drop 'em a level.
And after doing all of that? I'd lift a page from Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed/Arcana Evolved game and add the mechanics of lesser and greater forms of spells as well as superior, inferior, and alternative components.
Aus_Snow
First Post
Nifft also had some good suggestions (IMO) for de-nerfing certain arcane damage-dealing spells, like Cone of Cold for instance.
Ah, here we go (found the file):
Cone of Cold: d8/level
Polar Ray: d10/level
Meteor Swarm: fire damage is 6d10
Freezing Sphere: d8/level (d10/level to water creatures)
I know, it's not re-levelling, per se, but it might be relevant anyway. Hope so.
Ah, here we go (found the file):
Cone of Cold: d8/level
Polar Ray: d10/level
Meteor Swarm: fire damage is 6d10
Freezing Sphere: d8/level (d10/level to water creatures)
I know, it's not re-levelling, per se, but it might be relevant anyway. Hope so.
Kerrick
First Post
I used to have a doc with about 30 revised spells in it, which I made a couple years ago. I have since incorporated all the changes into Project Phoenix and I can't find it anymore, but I can give you a list of major changes I made in PP:
"Animal buffs": Duration increased to 10 minutes/level, and they affect modifiers instead of the base abilities (for example, cat's grace grants a +4 modifier to all Dex-based checks, instead of a +4 bonus to Dex).
Antimagic Field: All spells/effects require a caster level check to be suppressed. Permanent magic items (magic weapons/armor) can't be suppressed, though any extra abilities can.
Darkness: Level adjusted, and the spell is actual darkness, not "shadowy illumination". Darkvision grants limited sight in the darkness.
Disjunction: Spell is treated as dispel with no caster level cap; grants additional effects for targeted dispel; doesn't affect artifacts.
Flesh to Stone: Does progressive Dex damage over 3 rounds; when the victim reaches 0 Dex (or on the 3rd round regardless), he turns completely to stone.
Gate: Cut the calling function – it simply serves as a two-way transport between planes.
Heal: Does only one of the following: restores ability damage, heals hit point damage, or heals conditions (dazzled, blinded, etc.).
Polar Ray: Added a slow effect on a failed save.
Polymorph, et al.: Limited by CR/ECL, not HD.
Raise dead, resurrection, and true res: Boosted a level to keep pace with the SoD spells.
Rope Trick: Duration was reduced to 10 minutes/level, the space is stated as extradimensional (not nondimensional) and can hold up to 8 Medium creatures or their equivalent (not 8 creatures of any size).
Save or die spells: Drop the target to dying (-1d4, 1d6, 1d8, or 1d10 depending on spell level, and it can't recover on its own) on a failed save.
Scorching Ray: Damage/ray is halved, but number of rays (and rate of gain) is increased. Damage was lowered because the original version grants 12d6 total damage at 11th level with no save. This version grants 8d6 at 12th with no save.
Summon Monster/Nature's Ally: Revamped summoning lists, duration changed to 1 minute/level.
True Seeing: Subject can see through illusions only if their caster level is lower than the TS caster level; range is reduced to 60 ft.
Weird: Changed targets to "1 living creature/level in a 30-ft. radius", dropped extra damage, changed Strength damage to Wisdom damage.
Miracle, wish: Bumped up to 10th level (I have rules for real 10th+ level spells).
"Animal buffs": Duration increased to 10 minutes/level, and they affect modifiers instead of the base abilities (for example, cat's grace grants a +4 modifier to all Dex-based checks, instead of a +4 bonus to Dex).
Antimagic Field: All spells/effects require a caster level check to be suppressed. Permanent magic items (magic weapons/armor) can't be suppressed, though any extra abilities can.
Darkness: Level adjusted, and the spell is actual darkness, not "shadowy illumination". Darkvision grants limited sight in the darkness.
Disjunction: Spell is treated as dispel with no caster level cap; grants additional effects for targeted dispel; doesn't affect artifacts.
Flesh to Stone: Does progressive Dex damage over 3 rounds; when the victim reaches 0 Dex (or on the 3rd round regardless), he turns completely to stone.
Gate: Cut the calling function – it simply serves as a two-way transport between planes.
Heal: Does only one of the following: restores ability damage, heals hit point damage, or heals conditions (dazzled, blinded, etc.).
Polar Ray: Added a slow effect on a failed save.
Polymorph, et al.: Limited by CR/ECL, not HD.
Raise dead, resurrection, and true res: Boosted a level to keep pace with the SoD spells.
Rope Trick: Duration was reduced to 10 minutes/level, the space is stated as extradimensional (not nondimensional) and can hold up to 8 Medium creatures or their equivalent (not 8 creatures of any size).
Save or die spells: Drop the target to dying (-1d4, 1d6, 1d8, or 1d10 depending on spell level, and it can't recover on its own) on a failed save.
Scorching Ray: Damage/ray is halved, but number of rays (and rate of gain) is increased. Damage was lowered because the original version grants 12d6 total damage at 11th level with no save. This version grants 8d6 at 12th with no save.
Summon Monster/Nature's Ally: Revamped summoning lists, duration changed to 1 minute/level.
True Seeing: Subject can see through illusions only if their caster level is lower than the TS caster level; range is reduced to 60 ft.
Weird: Changed targets to "1 living creature/level in a 30-ft. radius", dropped extra damage, changed Strength damage to Wisdom damage.
Miracle, wish: Bumped up to 10th level (I have rules for real 10th+ level spells).
Why would you take find the path as a 9th level spell, assuming it was one?
Achan hiArusa
Explorer
I've thought about getting rid of the Cookien spell caps. They were made because high HD were rare and they are still in d20 even though the HD top end has been taken away. So I came up with this (forgive me I don't know how to do tables on this):
Spell.....Damage per caster level
Level.....(single/mult targets)
0...........1d3/-
1...........1d4/-
2...........1d6/1d4
3...........1d6/1d6
4...........1d8/1d6
5...........1d8/1d8
6...........1d10/1d8
7...........1d10/1d10
8...........2d6/1d10
9...........2d6/2d6
Cleric Spells do one level less damage.
Celebrim
Legend
Because of this sentence:
"The spell enables the subject to sense the correct direction that will eventually lead it to its destination, indicating at appropriate times the exact path to follow or physical actions to take. For example, the spell enables the subject to sense trip wires or the proper word to bypass a glyph of warding."
Essentially, you never have to worry about a trap, puzzle, or any other sort of physical obstacle again. You automatically bypass all of them. 'Find the Path' is broadly worded that there appears to be no limit on what it can do, and if there is a limited, its still so broadly worded that its going to lead to arguments with the players if you try to limit it. For example, suppose the treasure was locked behind a door inside a trap filled maze, and the key to this door was in a trapped chest, casting find the path allows you navigate the maze to the chest containing the key, to open the chest safely, either by disarming the trap or automatically making a saving throw. Then, armed with the key it allows you to safely find and open the door.
That's I think pretty darn powerful, and it more or less invalidates a whole host of traditional adventure designs once it becomes available as well as being so utterly absolute as to render a whole host of previously useful skills and class features (trap finding for example) pointless.
Celebrim
Legend
In the case of both spells I mentioned, I would very much prefer to rewrite them to not be so broken as in both cases I think that they have a highly detrimental effect on gameplay.
However, that's not what the OP asked. The original poster asked which spells should be releveled. Generally speaking, I tend to want to rewrite any spell that needs to be releveled, but if I was going for a quick and dirty fix making the above two spells compete with Wish (one of the few spells with comparable power) would be it.
While I'm thinking about it, I think regenerate is too high of a level, and probably needs to be rolled down to 4th or 5th level (instead of 7th!) since conceptually it would seem to be easier and less powerful than restoring life completely (which first becomes available at 5th!).
