What spells would you relevel and why?

[concerro]

What I'm saying is that in order to summon a creature from another plane, what ever the creature, would take too much magic to be a those levels. I don't like the idea of saying that spells are too good or bad, I like to measure the amount of magic it would use and go on that.

That sounds good from an RP or flavor perspective, but from a balance perspective what really matters is what the spell can do for you. You don't need a feat or spell to flavor something. All you need is enough imagination to make a reason at to why spell X uses more magic than spell Y so the only left to guide spell levels is balance.

Rope Trick allows you to create a dimensional pocket. Teleport on the other hand only tranports you and would seem to use less magic, but teleport is a higher level spell because while rope trick allows you to sleep in the dungeon, teleport may allow you to bypass the dungeon.

 

[ScionJustice]

That sounds good from an RP or flavor perspective, but from a balance perspective what really matters is what the spell can do for you. You don't need a feat or spell to flavor something. All you need is enough imagination to make a reason at to why spell X uses more magic than spell Y so the only left to guide spell levels is balance.

Rope Trick allows you to create a dimensional pocket. Teleport on the other hand only tranports you and would seem to use less magic, but teleport is a higher level spell because while rope trick allows you to sleep in the dungeon, teleport may allow you to bypass the dungeon.

I think the idea of balance is one of the silliest things out there that make the game dumb. Why would gun with a sword be able to do as much as a master of arcane magic? Balance ftmfl!

 

[concerro]

I think the idea of balance is one of the silliest things out there that make the game dumb. Why would gun with a sword be able to do as much as a master of arcane magic? Balance ftmfl!

The issue of balance is so you don't have some low-level ____ doing ridiculously incredible things. Whether or not balance is need also depends on the system. In D&D for example having level 4,7,11,and 15 characters go adventuring together is not going to work. Whatever is ok for the 4th and 7th level guys will be creamed by the 11 and 15 levels ones, and what is a good challenge for the 11 and especially the 15th level character will trounce the level 4 and 7 characters with one arm behind its back. Exalted on the other hand does not have levels, and enemies dont have numbers that show their power level(CR), but it is more of a storyteller's game than D&D is for the most part, but it also requires players being ok not doing "cool" things in combat since you could make a character that is great in diplomacy situations but terrible at fighting.
In other words the issue of balance is system dependent, and D&D does not work well when you ignore it.

 

[concerro]

I think the idea of balance is one of the silliest things out there that make the game dumb. Why would gun with a sword be able to do as much as a master of arcane magic? Balance ftmfl!

To answer the question I don't think it is realistic to expect the sword guy to compete with the magic user which is one of the gripes with 3.X due to the fact that balance is not working as envisioned because they "ideally" should be able to contribute equally

 

[Kask]

Essentially, you never have to worry about a trap, puzzle, or any other sort of physical obstacle again. You automatically bypass all of them.

Umm, not really. If you come to a sheer 1000' chasm that you must cross, the only thing that will happen will be to tell you to cross it or go way around. You don't automatically bypass anything.

 

[Celebrim]

Umm, not really. If you come to a sheer 1000' chasm that you must cross, the only thing that will happen will be to tell you to cross it or go way around. You don't automatically bypass anything.

That's not what the spell says. The spell says:

"The spell enables the subject to sense the correct direction that will eventually lead it to its destination, indicating at appropriate times the exact path to follow or physical actions to take. For example, the spell enables the subject to sense trip wires or the proper word to bypass a glyph of warding. The spell ends when the destination is reached or the duration expires, whichever comes first. Find the path can be used to remove the subject and its companions from the effect of a maze spell in a single round."

If you come to a sheer 1000' chasm that you must cross while 'Find the Path' is in effect, you'll immediately know the quickest path to take around the chasm. If there is no way across the chasm, then 'Find the Path' would have never led you there in the first place because doing so would have violated the 'eventually lead to its destination' clause. Instead, you would have first been led to a flying carpet.

If you come to a locked door while 'Find the Path' is in effect, you'll immediately know the path to the key. In fact, it's worse than that. You'll know to go get the key before you ever even come to the door, and upon finding the door not only will you have the key, but the pass phrase that opens the door will immediately come to mind and you'll know the exact motions to make to avoid the lethal deathtrap just beyond the door.

There are very few things that thwart 'Find the Path'. About the only thing that does thwart it is, for example, if the shortest path to the destination runs right through the lair of a great wyrm. Otherwise, repeat applications of 'Find the Path' solve any dungeon type scenario completely. One casting gets you to the center of the 'Tomb of Horrors', there to have your soul sucked away true, but it bypasses every other obstacle in the tomb.

 

[Kask]

That's not what the spell says. The spell says:

I didn't state it was uncrossable. I was showing that it isn't always that useful. It might take 5 days to construct a way across as opposed to 5 days and 1 hour to go around. You've gained an hour. Big deal. It does nothing to mess up the game unless the DM prepares poorly.

 

[Nedz]

Summoning spells are fairly useless at low level given their duration, and fairly useless at high level because the monsters are so weak.
I've run whole teams of NPC summoners and found that the players just tumbled past the critters, who couldn't hit them anyway. This was only a level 12 party - so I'm not going to bother with this option for NPCs in future.
So: Drop 1st and 2nd level summonings, and boost the monsters for MS V and upwards ?

 

[Nedz]

As for the other spells - I just wish that the paths were better thought out. Why is there no 0th or 1st level Phantasm ? etc.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Well you could always change the 1 round/level durations, which are silly exercises in pointless minutae to begin with. Seriously, all the durations you need are: instantaneous, 5 minutes (encounter), 1 day and possibly longer durations for non-combat spells.