What stat method do you use??

[d4]

With 25 points whats roughly the average stats you'll get out of them?

"average" stats for 25-point buy are the default array: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. total attribute bonus: +5.

i don't think i've ever seen a player get lower than that with 4d6-drop lowest.

my main beef with rolling stats is that most of the DMs i know who allow players to roll stats don't require the players to roll in front of them. so several players seem to always end up with characters equivalent to a 60- to 70-point buy.

(i know that's a weakness of the DMs and not of the rolling system, but it still annoys me.)

 

[Emirikol]

OK, let's try this again...
CHARACTER CONCEPTS

CULTURE, HOME REGION & BACKGROUND
The first step in making a character for Hyboria is to decide what country or region you want to be from. See the Thurian Cultural map. Use this homeland theme to help with background, name, race, class skills, languages, feats, weakness, and equipment selection.


ABILITY SCORE DETERMINATION
Character ability scores are determined using the “Standard Point Buy” from the Dungeonmaster’s Guide. Use 32 starting points to spend among all abilities, as listed by cost below. No ability may go lower than 8.


Ability Point |Ability Point
Score Cost |Score Cost
8 0 | 14 6
9 1 | 15 8
10 2 | 16 10
11 3 | 17 13
12 4 | 18 16
13 5 | -


Add any final ability score racial modifiers or level advancement modifiers after calculating your points.


Example Templates of 32 point Statistics: S/D/C/I/W/Ch:
· Brythunian Fighter: 18, 14, 11, 11, 10, 10
· Khitan Bushido: 16, 16, 13, 13, 10, 8
· Cimmerian Barbarian: 18, 15, 12, 10, 9, 8
· Kue Adept: 14, 12, 12, 12, 16, 12
· Zamoran Rogue: 14, 15, 14, 12, 10, 14

LEVEL
· New & replacement characters begin at the same level as your last character (or party minimum). Wealth is one level less (DMGp135) with purchase restrictions. This is a dangerous campaign. Keep an extra character handy at all times!


HIT POINTS
· Hit Points: PC’s start with maximum hit points for their first character level. Each level thereafter, the PC may take ½ HD max +1 or must have the DM witness their Hit Point rolls for each level thereafter.

· To extend the campaign, Hit dice are halved from 10th level upwards and are always rolled. (e.g. barbarian d6, fighter d5, rogue d4, sorcerer d3 with normal constitution bonus).

· A roll of ‘1’ for hit points, cure spells and cure potions may be re-rolled once.

HERO POINTS
Hero Points are a ‘fudge factor’ that allow you to add or subtract numbers after your rolls. Your character’s total points per 4-hour game session is equal to one plus one per 5 levels. (1 at first; 2 at 5th level; 3 at 10th level, 5 at 15th)

jh

 

[Green Knight]

Hmm, using Thanee's system, let's say I were to make a Paladin. These're the stats I'd get.

Cha 17

Str 17

Con 15

Wis 15

Int 12

Dex 11

So I got Str 17, Dex 11, Con 15, Int 12, Wis 15, Cha 17. Huh. I like!

But anyway, I prefer point buy. It really sucks when you have one player who rolls exceedingly well, and another who rolls exceedingly bad. Then you've got a situation where one player's doing piss-poorly, while another's excelling. I prefer point buy in most cases. Though personally I prefer a 42 point buy, with monsters elevated to 25 point buy. It keeps the stat proportions the same as a 25 point buy PC to a 15 point buy monster (So the CR's don't end up getting skewed as a result), while giving the player more options to play around with, allowing for more heroic characters, and makes the monsters more interesting (Along that same vein, I prefer monsters with PC classes, rather than them all being just Warriors). And if the player wants flaws, hey. No reason the Elf Wizard can't stick 16 points in Int for an 18 and 0 in Con for a 6.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

I couldn't answer your poll, because you don't have an "Other" option. I ask players to distribute a certain number of points, usually 72, on a one-for-one basis. (Not starting at 8 for each stat, but at zero.) Then I give them a list of items they could include in their biography to earn additional points. In my current campaign, a player who gives me everything on the list ends up with 80 points to distribute.

I like this method for several reasons.

1. Everyone can have the same number of points if they want to do the work for them.
2. Everyone can have *exactly* the stats they want.
3. I get wonderful, multi-page character biographies that give me enough plot seeds to last for the entire campaign.
4. I like the PCs to be on the heroic side. This method usually results in each character having one or two 16s and only one or no penalties. I realize not everyone likes that idea, but it works for me, and my players aren't complaining.

I've done this same thing on a d20 modern campagin... I loved it, and couldn't agree more... Though I have not done the 80 for charatcer bios but that seems pretty cool.

As for the pool I've done all the above and a few more left over from 2nd edition...

I also have one where I roll 4d6 for 20 rolls. I write down the result for each roll, and I'll take the 6 in a row that gives the most points.

But I like my characters on the heroic side also.

 

[Cedric]

I refuse to play a D&D game with point buy. If I wanted to buy stats and the like with points, I would play Hero where there are so many different options and things to do with your points that character never come out looking the same.

How many viable ways can you spend your points in a 28 point buy game? The stale, cookie cutter, lack of variety produced by this method is just ... unplayable.

I have no problem playing the guy with a 6 in one stat and a 7 in another when someone else in the group has nothing below a 15. I prefer the random factor.

I also abhor anything that tries to balance the races, classes or characters against one another. I do not think that every class has to match up to every other class at a given level. Nor does each character need to carry the same weight in the group as each other character.

I was mainly inspired by fiction in my ideas surrounding gameplay in medieval fantasy worlds. R.A. Salvatore, Tolkien, Eddings, Feist...and one thing you would never find in an adventuring party in one of their books...is a balanced group of characters.

Balance is a myth, and a goal best avoided in crafting a gameworld worth playing in. How do you succeed when your stats suck?

Don't succeed with your rolls, succeed with your roles.

Cedric

 

[diaglo]

3d6 six times in order.

 

[Zappo]

With 25 points whats roughly the sverage stats you'll get out of them? Then take into account the fact that dice rolling there's a chance of low stats whereas with point buy you'll never get a low stat! (really low if dm makes you keep whatever you roll) So that in it's self says that a point buy system in the long run will always be more powerful stat wise.

With 25 points you can get the "standard array" described in the DMG, which is fairly weaker than what you can expect from 4d6 drop low.

 

[Hackenslash]

Very Interesting Point....But !!!

I refuse to play a D&D game with point buy. If I wanted to buy stats and the like with points, I would play Hero where there are so many different options and things to do with your points that character never come out looking the same.

How many viable ways can you spend your points in a 28 point buy game? The stale, cookie cutter, lack of variety produced by this method is just ... unplayable.

I have no problem playing the guy with a 6 in one stat and a 7 in another when someone else in the group has nothing below a 15. I prefer the random factor.

I also abhor anything that tries to balance the races, classes or characters against one another. I do not think that every class has to match up to every other class at a given level. Nor does each character need to carry the same weight in the group as each other character.

I was mainly inspired by fiction in my ideas surrounding gameplay in medieval fantasy worlds. R.A. Salvatore, Tolkien, Eddings, Feist...and one thing you would never find in an adventuring party in one of their books...is a balanced group of characters.

Balance is a myth, and a goal best avoided in crafting a gameworld worth playing in. How do you succeed when your stats suck?

Don't succeed with your rolls, succeed with your roles.

Cedric

Cedric, I have to admit to being quite impressed with the point you have raised in your post, and upon reflection on the books that I have read and even the movies I have seen, the heros are hardly ever balanced. The Balancing concept has come from DM's wanting to be fair to their players and it especially comes out when players roll very poorly, hence the introduction of point buying.(I had a player in one of my old 2nd edition campaigns at college who rolled 12,10,9,8,8,6 and had a go at playing the character but was just too far behind the others, as they all rolled 5d6 per stat and the others rolled very well, he just rolled poorly, so in the end I let him retire the character and re-roll another one) But I suppose the is a valid arguement for realism and forsight, who knows what that character could have acheived if he continued to play it and what mnagic items could have helped in along the way.

OT - I have also read books by all the authors you quoted in your post and if you enjoyed them, then I would stongly recommend reading some of David Gemmells Drenai Novells or his Rigante Novells, he's an excellent character developer who creates heros with flaws and feeling. His most famous best seller is "Legend" released in 1984, but still in print. Enjoy !

Back on topic, I think I might consider changing my opinion and meet Grishnak half way for any future characters in my campaign. I think I might devise a rolling system with some weight carried to a favourable stat, but only on one stat, depending on what character you really want to play. For example if a player wanted to play a Warrior type, and that's any warrior type, eg. Paladin, Ranger, Fighter, Barbarian then they would get 6d6 to roll for Strength, the rest would be 4d6, drop the lowest. That way at least a character is assured one decent stat. that was rolled and the rest are more random and realistic but still have the potential to be heroic. It would still be all on the Roll or Role....hehehehe.... What do you reckon ? Cheers All.

 

[Grishnak]

I refuse to play a D&D game with point buy. If I wanted to buy stats and the like with points, I would play Hero where there are so many different options and things to do with your points that character never come out looking the same.

How many viable ways can you spend your points in a 28 point buy game? The stale, cookie cutter, lack of variety produced by this method is just ... unplayable.

I have no problem playing the guy with a 6 in one stat and a 7 in another when someone else in the group has nothing below a 15. I prefer the random factor.

I also abhor anything that tries to balance the races, classes or characters against one another. I do not think that every class has to match up to every other class at a given level. Nor does each character need to carry the same weight in the group as each other character.

I was mainly inspired by fiction in my ideas surrounding gameplay in medieval fantasy worlds. R.A. Salvatore, Tolkien, Eddings, Feist...and one thing you would never find in an adventuring party in one of their books...is a balanced group of characters.

Balance is a myth, and a goal best avoided in crafting a gameworld worth playing in. How do you succeed when your stats suck?

Don't succeed with your rolls, succeed with your roles.

Cedric

Wish I could have said it better.

With 25 points you can get the "standard array" described in the DMG, which is fairly weaker than what you can expect from 4d6 drop low.

I will agree with you that quite possibly on a singular basis the dice roll will come out on top but over a period of character generations the stat buy will come out on top due to the fact you can never go below an 8 or 9 (cant recall which)

 

[Grishnak]

Cedric, I have to admit to being quite impressed with the point you have raised in your post, and upon reflection on the books that I have read and even the movies I have seen, the heros are hardly ever balanced. The Balancing concept has come from DM's wanting to be fair to their players and it especially comes out when players roll very poorly, hence the introduction of point buying.(I had a player in one of my old 2nd edition campaigns at college who rolled 12,10,9,8,8,6 and had a go at playing the character but was just too far behind the others, as they all rolled 5d6 per stat and the others rolled very well, he just rolled poorly, so in the end I let him retire the character and re-roll another one) But I suppose the is a valid arguement for realism and forsight, who knows what that character could have acheived if he continued to play it and what mnagic items could have helped in along the way.

OT - I have also read books by all the authors you quoted in your post and if you enjoyed them, then I would stongly recommend reading some of David Gemmells Drenai Novells or his Rigante Novells, he's an excellent character developer who creates heros with flaws and feeling. His most famous best seller is "Legend" released in 1984, but still in print. Enjoy !

Back on topic, I think I might consider changing my opinion and meet Grishnak half way for any future characters in my campaign. I think I might devise a rolling system with some weight carried to a favourable stat, but only on one stat, depending on what character you really want to play. For example if a player wanted to play a Warrior type, and that's any warrior type, eg. Paladin, Ranger, Fighter, Barbarian then they would get 6d6 to roll for Strength, the rest would be 4d6, drop the lowest. That way at least a character is assured one decent stat. that was rolled and the rest are more random and realistic but still have the potential to be heroic. It would still be all on the Roll or Role....hehehehe.... What do you reckon ? Cheers All.

I think that is a much fairer method so you do get a stat that helps and don't end up with that 10 str fighter or 10 int wizard. And keeps with the character flaws that I do like a lot. Thanks to cedric for such a great reply