what stinking cloud can do

[evilbob]

Well, fair enough, and like I said I don't think anyone would rule the opposite just because of the overpowered nature of it, but I still don't see how you can end up inside a zone without entering it.

 

[Bagpuss]

Enter means to come or go into, if the zone moves around you, then technically it envelops you. Rather than you entering it. Entering requires action on your part. If I built a house around you, you never actual enter it, same sort of thing with zones.

 

[Bayuer]

@evilbob you just don't wont to see the easiest answer, don't you

On p.61 in DMG in Obscured Terrain you read:

Obscured terrain provides concealment and blocks line of sight if a target is far enough away from you. However, it has no effect on movement.

So. Fog (vapors), heavy fog and darkness are obscuring terrain that block line of sight. Fog (light obscured), heavy fog (heavy obscured), darkness (totaly obscured). True?

Stinking Cloud creates a vapors. In description you see thats a thick cloud of bilious yellow vapors. Well. You have two options here. It's definetly not the totaly obscured terrain (it's not a darkness). So it's a light or heavy obscured terrain.

Later on p.61 in DMG you have:

Lightly Obscured: Squares of dim light, fog, smoke, heavy snow, or rain are lightly obscured. Taregt have concealment.

Heavily Obscured: Squares of heavy fog or heavy smoke are heavily obscured. Adjacent creatures have concealment. Far away are not seen.

And in other wizard powers you have one power that says about total concealment.
It's 23 Encouter Spell "Acid Storm":

The cloud blocks line of sight, providing total concealment to creatures inside it. Any creature that enters the cloud or starts its turn there takes 10 acid damage. The cloud lasts until the end of your next turn, or you can dismiss it as a minor action.

Don't forget that the Cloudkill on 19 Daily Power don't says about total concealment just like Stinking Cloud dosen't. It just block line of sight.

So whe have Stinking Cloud, Cloudkill, Fog Cloud (6 lvl Wizard Daily thats says fog gives concealment), Hunger of Hadar (darkness) and Acid Storm (cloud with total concealment). Well in almost all cases we have clear answer. Only in those 2 clouds we don't have. Ahh theres a Wall of Fire, Wall of Ice. Both bloking line of sight. Is fire so obscured it gives total concealment? I don't think so. So why clouds? I prefer that all they gives concealmen (-2 to hit). But it will be still fair to rule that are heavy obscured squeares giving total concealement (-2 adjacent, -5 non-adjacent). I hop that WoTC will give us answer soon.

 

[evilbob]

This is exactly the sort of semantics discussion I avoid, but I think there's a difference between building a house around someone and the edge of a cloud coming toward, passing over, and going past you. Whether or not you're moving is irrelevant; you've entered the cloud.

But I promise I won't try to prove this anymore! Darn you, semantics!

 

[evilbob]

It's 23 Encouter Spell "Acid Storm":

It's funny that you'd bring that one up because to me it seems more like a power that is exactly like stinking cloud, except they bothered to clarify it. I just can't get past the line "that blocks line of sight" - that, in my opinion, implies that it blocks all lines of sight everywhere and doesn't work like a normal cloud. But hey: the wording is clearly not that clear.

 

[Bayuer]

Well I just readed again page 61 and I must agree with you. I was thinking alot about what I wrote at the end of my previous post, and the first version was just like yours. It gives total concealment (but like heavy obscured terrain). So:

Obscured terrain provides concealment and blocks line of sight if a target is far enough away from you.

Wall of Fog:

The fog grants concealment to creatures in its space and blocks line of sight.

And when you add this 23 Encounter well. You right. That will be the best solution for Stinking Cloud --> heavy obscured (total concealment).

Cheers.

 

[Kelanen]

This is the answer I got from customer service regarding Stinking Cloud.

"There's no specific limit to the number of times a creature can take damage from the cloud. However, keep in mind that moving the cloud over the top of him is different from him entering the cloud. Moving the cloud over him would not trigger the "creature takes damage every time he enters the cloud", as he's not entering it, it's moving over him. Conversely, using a forced movement power to push him back in would trigger it."

 

[Pickles JG]

In general, it's a hard spell to counter. I've been trying to think of how I would do it myself, short of "always including a dispelling mage" or "always using enemies immune to poison (and/or necrotic, since the gloves work on it too)" - because those are so specific that it'd be pretty cheap for a DM to constantly throw guys like that at a party just to kill one power. (And un-fun for the player.) The only thing I can really come up with is to exploit its two weakest points: the damage it deals per round (low) and the concealment it grants.

The weakness is that it is hard to target enemies precisely. In my games the party & monsters usually get pretty mixed up & it's hard to get just enemies with the cloud (or more than just one enemy). I think it's good just not overewhelming. I guess with a wall of tanks suppoted by ranged attackers rather than the usual rogues & other flankers it might be rather strong.

 

[Bayuer]

@Kelanen well thats changes everything but what if power alows you slide and you just put the target into zone out - in - out - in? So rule. Just one dmg per slide or allow it?

 

[Caliban]

@Kelanen well thats changes everything but what if power alows you slide and you just put the target into zone out - in - out - in? So rule. Just one dmg per slide or allow it?

It's valid under the rules, although I would understand if a DM wanted to limit it. I would allow it. Fights take too long as it is.