What the heck is going on with the professional RPG industry in regards to Zak S?

[John Lynch2]

Regarding Bill Webb, I know of two local but well-regarded conventions that have recinded “guest of honor”-type designations from him. And I expect convention organizers will continue to be pressured to be more circumspect about such honors.

So why is his product still available for sale at OneBookshelf? Apparently con organisers believe he's a sexual predator (although I'm curious if they have banned him from their CONS). His apology did seem to contain a certain amount of "I'm not going to dispute those allegations" which isn't quite as close as "I admit they're true" but seemed to be awfully leaning that way.

Either he tried (and failed) to sexually harass someone, or he was falsely accused. Are sexual harassers acceptable in OneBookshelf's eyes? Do they have to escalate to sexual assault before they get removed? Is that okay to the greater community?

 

[John Lynch2]

On the question of "threshold".

Well, despite my earlier claims, there is actually a pretty simple threshold for businesses. Is associating my product with you costing me money? If yes, then, well, I no longer want to associate my product with you.

So, really, questions about "why didn't they do anything earlier?" basically miss that point. They didn't do anything earlier because it wasn't hurting business. Now, it is. So, now they do something.

Does anyone actually think this gross capatlism is acceptable? We'll defend abusers and work with them so long as we get to earn an extra buck off them? It certainly makes their claims of concern and distancing from Zak S ring hollow if this is truly what motivates them. A shame that such a great game is the hands of such a morally bankrupt organisation. Assuming Hussar is correct.

 

[Jester David]

And yet, the idea that one allegation is enough is also quite horrifying.

FOUR allegations reported over TWO Facebook posts, with one collaborating and confirming the other, presenting a long-term habitual abuse rather than a single incident.

 

[Immortal Sun]

Does anyone actually think this gross capatlism is acceptable? We'll defend abusers and work with them so long as we get to earn an extra buck off them? It certainly makes their claims of concern and distancing from Zak S ring hollow if this is truly what motivates them. A shame that such a great game is the hands of such a morally bankrupt organisation. Assuming Hussar is correct.

lol, god this thread is so predictable.

 

[John Lynch2]

FOUR allegations reported over TWO Facebook posts, with one collaborating and confirming the other, presenting a long-term habitual abuse rather than a single incident.

That's your criteria? Any allegation of abuse/sexual assault must be reported over TWO Facebook posts, with one collaborating and confirming the other, presenting a long-term habitual abuse rather than a single incident?

That seems very oddly specific. Or you're misreading my posts as me trying to defend Zak S. I'll repeat it again in case you missed it: I wasn't surprised by these allegations. I don't see many people claiming they were surprised. Why are these industry leaders pretending they were surprised?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I saw a statistic that said that 40% of men would suffer from domestic abuse at some stage in their life and yet if the Police turn up at your place after your partner beats you up it is the man that gets arrested every single time.

As someone who has worked in the criminal justice system- albeit briefly- I can attest that “it is the man that gets arrested every single time.” is untrue. In fact most states have laws that dictate that, in a domestic dispute, responding officers must remove- but not necessarily arrest[/I— at least one participating party (spouse, significant other, child, parent, roommate, renter, etc.) from the premises. Who gets removed is situationally dependent, and officers recieve training on how to assess who should go, including asking all involved if they have a safe place to spend the rest of the evening. They can even ask for someone to voluntarily leave, at which point a volunteer will be granted time and access to the premises to recover some personal effects with police protection.

If you continue being a hothead and don’t listen to the cops, or worse, resist restraint attempts or take a swing at one, you WILL get arrested. If the responding officers are aware of a repeated pattern of behavior that results in multiple call-outs to the same address, someone WILL get arrested.

Summing up,

1) it isn’t always the man who gets hauled off;
2) being removed does not equal arrested, and may even be voluntary;
3) arrests usually only occur if someone wants to press charges or is unresponsive to the lawful orders of the officers.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Does anyone actually think this gross capatlism is acceptable? We'll defend abusers and work with them so long as we get to earn an extra buck off them? It certainly makes their claims of concern and distancing from Zak S ring hollow if this is truly what motivates them. A shame that such a great game is the hands of such a morally bankrupt organisation. Assuming Hussar is correct.

Look no further than professional sports* to see even worse examples. As I pointed out, there’s been a societal shift away from tolerance in these cases, and the triggers are getting pulled.



* or big entertainment companies. Or tech firms. Ahhh...just watch the news of the last couple of years.

 

[Jester David]

That's your criteria? Any allegation of abuse/sexual assault must be reported over TWO Facebook posts, with one collaborating and confirming the other, presenting a long-term habitual abuse rather than a single incident?

Yup. Pretty much.
Heck, the second Facebook post is pretty much superfluous. You just need one.
The criteria is:
a) Accusation from a victim
b) History of abuse rather than a one-time incident

What else would I need?
Written affidavits? Salacious photos? Incriminating video? The battered body of his wife, beaten to death?

Or you're misreading my posts as me trying to defend Zak S.

Aren't you?

I'll repeat it again in case you missed it: I wasn't surprised by these allegations. I don't see many people claiming they were surprised. Why are these industry leaders pretending they were surprised?

What industry leaders are pretending to be surprised? Or were surprised at all?

There's a few people who believed and defended Zak prior. But that was just against him being an online troll. But even that behavior was enough for WotC to cut ties and not work with him again.
Being a jerk is enough for people not to want to hire Zak, but not enough to pull his books.

Him being a rapist however, is enough to want to stop selling his content and inviting him to conventions.

 

[Sadras]

Why are these industry leaders pretending they were surprised?

Please ask Meryl Streep, the Clintons and everyone else in Hollywood that question...

A shame that such a great game is the hands of such a morally bankrupt organisation.

You still watched movies right, even while all this was going on in Hollywood, and you can't seriously have been surprised by the allegations?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

It is so bad that men get prosecuted 96% of the time which means that women escape prosecution 95% of the time.

Which really does explain why [MENTION=19675]Dannyalcatraz[/MENTION] does not see anything.

Now you’re making assumptions about me, and that means you’re making an ass of...well, definitely you.

I didn’t want to bring it up, but I have experience with domestic violence outside of the scope of my employment. Two of my aunts were physically abused by spouses. One fought back and gave her attacker a nice shiner...and still lost.

I know a Marine whose wife would wait until he was asleep before tying him to the bed and beating him.

I have a cousin who was attacked by an in-laws wife on his front lawn- and contrary to your assertion, he was not arrested. She was removed, but not arrested.