What the heck is "Unfun"?

[Sundragon2012]

You seem to really enjoy the use of lengthy hyperbole slamming other people, and today's internet lesson is that this causes other people to respond in kind.

YOU are engaging in hyperbole by stating the above. I have slammed no one...this is a straw man. I disagree with certain things, but I have attacked no one online, nor have I been rude or abrasive. I think I'm right on this issue, fine, but just because I don't waste my time with endless IMOs doesn't mean I have SLAMMED anyone.

Please indicate where I have slammed others, not disagreed....strongly even...but slammed an individual. You won't find it. If you do, I will issue an apology immediately. If you don't find evidence of my mean spiritedness, then admit your use of hyperbole in describing my position.

If you won't do either, just feel free to walk away from the thread or simply cease responding to my posts because I have better things to do that have my thread derailed by nonsense.



Sundragon

 

[Fobok]

As a DM of over 20 years (playing D&D over 30) I don't let my games get this silly. I don't need 4E to know how to prevent this.

So you avoid all high level play? (Something that would *never* work for me. I, and those I play with, like high level play. Thus, why we stopped keeping track of these things, even though I do like details.) Or do you just stop keeping track when you get to high levels?

 

[Sundragon2012]

You know, your tone aside, I'll be honest, Sundragon. After that ridiculous list of non-issues you opened with, I haven't been engaging you with any degree of seriousness, and I guess it'd be more polite to do otherwise or bow out.

Since you're busy trying to prove your playstyle objectively right, I'll guess you didn't read my list of lessons very clearly or attentively and not continue responding to your arguments on this matter.

Have a good thread.

Sorry if I took you seriously when you meant it as a joke. Sometimes humor can be lost online in the midst of a sometimes heated discussion...thus emoticons or smilies can help.

On a side note, I am arguing for my position as that is the nature of many, many of the serious gaming discussions revolve around on a message board. I feel strongly about this but I am reasonable as my posts will indicate if you read them through.



Sundragon

 

[Grog]

happens and though I will try as DM to not have an encounter that slaughters you too I can't guarantee it, nor would I if I could. Sometimes a random save will kill you on a 1 even at high level. What do you suggest? No save or die effects?

Actually, yes. That is exactly what I would suggest.

There is some level of chance and regrettably that can lead to PC death but just as likely it can add up to villian death. Every good sword cuts both ways.

Actually, I and many others agree that it's also not fun to take out the BBEG on the first round of combat with a save-or-die. How does that play into your "people just want instant gratification" straw man?

 

[DM_Jeff]

Sorry, what's the challenge in "First round! Make a Fort save or don't play in this hour long combat" again?

Yeah, that's just terrible, it actually makes you fear the monster who might do that to you, doesn't it?

-DM Jeff

 

[Grog]

I haven't read all these posts but from what I've read elsewhere "unfun" is also known as "challenges".

Wrong.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Yeah, that's just terrible, it actually makes you fear the monster who might do that to you, doesn't it?

-DM Jeff

No. Monsters that might do terrible damage to the world she lives in if she doesn't defeat them make my character afraid. Being as I'm playing a game, no monsters make me afraid, though some make me bored and/or annoyed.

 

[KarinsDad]

Then add all the other things to track. However many potions do you have? Hit Points? Condition track? Stat damage? Effects of stat damage? Spells? Special conditions (fatigued, cursed, inebriated)? Action Points? Gold? Copper?

I fail to see how this is overwhelming.

The DM has to keep track of this stuff for all of his NPCs. Each player has to keep track of it for one PC (typically unless they have a cohort).


Btw, we use coins (i.e. painted washers) in our game. We also have gems. We have 5 denominations of coins: SP, GP, 25 GP, PP, 25 PP. We ignore copper. It's been a lot of fun. The only downside is sometimes counting them out and we've even mostly resolved this by grouping the coins with a twist tie.

Some people might not enjoy that in a game. We do: or at least, I have never gotten a complaint and I know that some people enjoy manipulating and playing with the coins.

The point is that how a group handles issues like carried items and wealth can be non-annoying if the group makes it that way. For example, the archer should have the cost of arrows either memorized or written on his character sheet. If he has to stop playing in order to look up the cost of arrows in the PHB, then he's not organized enough himself and is causing delays himself.

But if a player is incapable of keeping track of the dynamic elements of his PC, then he's doing it wrong.

 

[DM_Jeff]

Wrong.

In your opinion, that's cool.

Ah, 4.0, the "complainers edition". Sorry, all I'm reading is how unfun means adversity that must be overcome by playing smart, prepping, or whatever.

I guess it's unfun to fall in a pit and all your group forgets to bring rope. Whoops, maybe we should eliminate pits too. This is all just so silly it's laughable.

-DM Jeff

 

[Sundragon2012]

No. Monsters that might do terrible damage to the world she lives in if she doesn't defeat them make my character afraid. Being as I'm playing a game, no monsters make me afraid, though some make me bored and/or annoyed.

Well plenty of players do connect with their characters enough to feel fear when something horrible is coming. I know I felt it when I played, I am certain my players have. Its the kind of vicarious fear you feel in a horror movie when you know that the monster can't really get you but you still feel dread for the character on the screen you care about.

Its fun, I recommend it.



Sundragon