What the heck is "Unfun"?

[Kahuna Burger]

But then how do you defend the gaming habits of a group of people that don't exist? If the OP says that 5 headed people are bad drivers, it seems like I would have to prove the existence of 5 headed people before I told him he was wrong.

Assuming this is meant to have bearing on the thread rather than a rather successful exercise in surrealist posting, the issue is not insulting people who don't exist. The issue is insulting people who do exist through strawman arguments.

"5 Headed people are bad drivers."

"What's up with people who don't want driver's licenses given out based on looks? They think I can't tell that a 5 headed person isn't gonna make a good driver? Gee, maybe we should give eyeless parapalegics drivers licenses too, huh?"

The problem is not people in this thread inventing gaming habits and insulting them, it's ascribing invented gaming habits to people who dare to discuss aspects of the game that are more or less fun for what they add, and insulting the real people using the imaginary gaming habits.

 

[Grog]

Post #144 below is the only link I am providing. I have a life outside of this. I am speaking from experience and discussion or reading and lurking. You expect me to prove that these kinds of gamers exist?

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

 

[IanB]

My personal #1 choice for "unfun" is a permanent, unalterable change to the numbers on my character sheet.

That means level drain, xp drain, permanent hp drain (hello, Shape of Fire ), things of that nature.

Things that make my character strictly worse, unfixably, without killing me. You can blow my stuff up, that's fine, I can get new stuff. Level drain is just a stupid punitive mechanic that doesn't make any sense in-character.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I'm going to take my eye off of "strawman" for a second to point out that jokes can't be literally done to death. However, you are describing most of my posts on this board so I'll try to cut it back.

You kill jokes? And then raise them? Don't cut back! Get the extra turning feat and do it more! Haven't you heard that bards won't be in 4e, at least not at first?

 

[Glyfair]

My personal #1 choice for "unfun" is a permanent, unalterable change to the numbers on my character sheet.

Gaining levels?

Things that make my character strictly worse, unfixably, without killing me. You can blow my stuff up, that's fine, I can get new stuff. Level drain is just a stupid punitive mechanic that doesn't make any sense in-character.

Ah, negative things. I'm sort of with you here. I will make an exception for curses, although they strictly aren't permanent, they can last for extended times.

 

[KarinsDad]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Prove it!

 

[Gallo22]

No, it's cool. I just hear so much about players who want risk-free games around here that just for once, I'd like to see some evidence that these players actually exist in any significant numbers. I'm starting to think that the mythical player who wants everything handed to him on a silver platter is the EN World equivalent of the bogeyman.

Ok, ok, I'll say it, just so Groggy here can feel better about himself/herself. Groggy....your right! There is not a single thread of evidence here on EN World ,or other worlds for that matter, that prove..., beyond a shadow of a dounut..., that there are gamers who want risk-free games.

However, (hehehehe) there does seem to be alot of you crying about things that happen to your character when they don't go your way!!! So for that reason...and that reason alone... is why Habro is creating 4th Edition. At least that's what I heard. Ut-oh. I hope I don't have to prove this?

Boy, this the most fun I've had in a long time. No really.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Gaining levels?

Level caps! After all, that level is going to be altered again and again - right until it isn't, any more.

 

[Cadfan]

Your conclusion here is a logical fallacy. The length of the explanation is irrelevant to whether a rule needs changing or not. Speeding up games by doing reasonable things makes sense.

We need a moratorium on the use of the word "fallacy" by people who don't know how to use it. Perhaps we can call it the Fallacy Ad Fallacium. The fallacy of calling something a fallacy as a means of deriding it when in fact it is not a fallacy. Then we could have excellent meta discussions on whether my use of your full page of house rules and game aids as an indicator of rule complexity that should be investigated for simplification is a fallacy (its not, unless you deny the existence of inductive reasoning) more or less so than your claim that my argument is a fallacy. Wouldn't that be fun?

Sometimes I hate the internet.

 

[The Human Target]

Funny a threacrapper calling me a troll. Amusing.

I am in support of 4e and like much of what I'm hearing about it. My criticism is of an attitude amongst some who feel that the fun of playing the game with a well designed, interesting character, isn't enough anymore. For decades it has been, but not anymore it seems. IMO there is the attitude of being entitled to anything one desires as a fulfillment of the D&D experience when this has never been the case.

Versimilitude matters.

If this is trolling to you, then feel free to ignore the thread.

Sundragon

You know what?

I apologize.

I was on the board too long yesterday, and some of the negative pants attitude on here was getting to me.