What the Heck was I Thinking?!? (Conan Rpg)

[PosterBoy]

RPGbooks are like software now. Produce it fast and erroneous and promise updates and patches.

This is one reason we do ALL of our books in PDF first. RPGs are exactly like software IMHO. You need to go through updates and revisions before you get something clean (and balanced). I think we updated Darwin’s World 2 like six times before going to print. And even then, typos are errors still appeared.

 

[Ranger REG]

This is a good proof of the double standard which applies to WotC vs. 3rd party publishers.

For example, Sword & Fist 3e was pretty much crapped on for the mistakes it had. However, the reviews for Conan hardly mention this much larger amount of mistakes and errors (at least the RPG.net review and the most recent at ENWorld). If this book now gets 5.0 ratings, the fixed version should surely get 6.0.

Oh rolleyes, where art thou?

Don't worry. Once Mongoose reach a certain business height, it is only natural that more complaints about their products will come to the surface. After all, we like to hit those that are better than we are.

And that's probably how I developed an unhealthy fear of success. I don't like people to hate me.

 

[Iron_Chef]

The errors are there, but rarely do they damage game play or understanding of the rules (although some instances of this do exist, such as almost every single monster in the Bestiary having messed up stats, and there are some big setting mistakes in lumping Turanians and Hyrkanians together or placing Akbitania in Corinthia rather than Shem, which someone familiar with the setting will immediately catch, but newcomers will not). I don't regret buying it. I have run it successfully for a month now with few problems. The rules and setting are the most inspirational and exciting in years. People who are unreasonably putting it down and calling the whole thing crap for the errors are missing out. I have never had more fun gaming than with Conan rules in its setting. Drinking, whoring, gambling, fighting, robbing and running for your life (in addition to some kind of mystery/conspiracy solving brainwork in between the action)---that is what sword and sorcery is all about!

Every single class in Conan is cool and drips flavor! They stay cool throughout their 20 level progressions. D&D doesn't do that, that's why it needs PrCs to jazz it up. Plus, multiclassing is encouraged, as is sticking to stereotypes, if you prefer. The racial templates really ground you into the setting and give you a feel for the different cultures. The new combat system is terrifying and screams with dangerous excitement; every single fight feels like it could be your last, even at higher levels. The magic system is dark, creepy and properly mysterious, with all kinds of different sorcery styles, demonic pacts, and more. From subtle to truly horrifying! Even if you don't use the setting (which it helps to read the books to get a feel for), the rules work well with other low fantasy/magic rare settings like Lankhmar and Thieves' World. In fact, they are a godsend for anyone wishing to play in such an environment.

Conan should be RPG of the year---the second printing will hopefully secure its proper place.

 

[Unseelie]

These kind of errors appear in a few Mongoose products apparently.

Here's an interesting quote from a review of the Book of Encounters and Lairs:

I remember a non D&D product from years back that thought it would be a good idea to make sure Elf was properly capitalized and did a massive search and replace... turning self into 'sElf'. It might have been one of the Dangerous Journeys books, but I am unsure after all of this time.

It's an easy mistake to make, but it's generally an easy mistake to catch as well, and once someone else has made such a high-profile mistake, you'd think that it wouldn't happen again.

 

[Treebore]

When i pay money for something I expect top notch product. That is why I son't buy computer games until their Gold version.

There are mechanical problems with Conan. Go to their messageboards and read the lists.

I am not paying $50.00 with these kind of mistakes.

You know why computer companies do this? Because the consumer buys it anyway.

When sloppy work becomes accepted, then sloppy work is what you are going to get. This isn't an egotistical statement, it is just plain, hard, cold truth of human nature.

You make excuses for buying sloppy work you are just shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[Iron_Chef]

There are mechanical problems with Conan. Go to their messageboards and read the lists. I am not paying $50.00 with these kind of mistakes.

I'm one of the main posters on that messageboard. There are very few mechanical problems that have not been addressed and officially corrected there. As someone who bought two copies (a second one knowing the first had errors), I'm not going to apologize for the sloppy editing/proofreading; it was clearly rushed to print, and I'm not happy about that. That is unfortunate and will be corrected with errata and second printing. However, the mechanics are not only sound, but innovative, and inspirational. Wait for the second printing if you don't want to use the (upcoming) errata pdf and/or mark up your book. I couldn't wait to play it, so that was my choice. The plusses outweighed the minuses for me. YMMV.

...And don't forget that you don't have to pay $50 for it; Wal-Mart and Buy.com have it for around $30.

 

[Treebore]

I'm one of the main posters on that messageboard. There are very few mechanical problems that have not been addressed and officially corrected there. As someone who bought two copies (a second one knowing the first had errors), I'm not going to apologize for the sloppy editing/proofreading; it was clearly rushed to print, and I'm not happy about that. That is unfortunate and will be corrected with errata and second printing. However, the mechanics are not only sound, but innovative, and inspirational. Wait for the second printing if you don't want to use the (upcoming) errata pdf and/or mark up your book. I couldn't wait to play it, so that was my choice. The plusses outweighed the minuses for me. YMMV.

...And don't forget that you don't have to pay $50 for it; Wal-Mart and Buy.com have it for around $30.

Either way buying it now would say I accept crap for my money. That is why I have refused to buy a lot of books and other products that have nothing to do with gaming.

Matt has shown that his business has a concience and wants to make good on his promises. That is good. When he comes through on his word he will gain my customer loyalty. Until now he has shown me that shoddy work was acceptable. Now he is telling me he has standards and wants to raise "the bar" on the quality of his products. That is good. That is product I will buy.

I do not expect perfection, but I expect it to be a lot closer to perfection than it has been. Matt has now publicly announced that as his goal. When I see the proof I will support his company with my money and word of mouth, just like I do Necromancer, Goodman, Kenzer, and others. They do not put out perfect product either, but they strive to improve. That is what I respect.

 

[Iron_Chef]

Either way buying it now would say I accept crap for my money.

I think you're being overly harsh blanketly referring to Conan The RPG as "crap". I would hardly call it that, even with the problems. If it was truly "crap" you can bet I'd be screaming my head off and mad as hell, and wouldn't be wasting my time defending its value, playing it or providing GM and player support. The mechanics and setting are most definitely NOT crap. The editing/proofreading was sloppy, no bones about it. If you can wait for the second printing, wait. If you can't wait, don't, because the game is still perfectly playable with the errata.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Part of the problem with the software comparison is that a company can produce a patch for faults. I can download it. It goes onto my computer and I never know it's there.... Annoying, but the eventual impact on my use of the product is minimal.

Following the link earlier in this thread (thanks!) I managed to get the full errata pdf to the Mongoose game I'd picked up:

It's good of them to produce this, there's only 4-5 pages of it and it'll fix all the faults I found (and a few more I hadn't noticed...). I'd imagine they'll do the same thing for the Conan game rather promptly.

Unfortunately, how do I integrate it into my book? Cut the bits out and glue them in? Add them at the back and look, if something doesn't make sense. It's going to be unweildy.

It annoys me because it's putting me off buying Conan and I really want to play that system. Perhaps if v2.0 is 'fixed'.

Having just re-read all of that, I think it's time I started looking at PDF products more closely!

 

[WizarDru]

Part of the problem with the software comparison is that a company can produce a patch for faults. I can download it. It goes onto my computer and I never know it's there.... Annoying, but the eventual impact on my use of the product is minimal.

A problem I have with the analogy is that it ignores the central source of most software problems: hardware compatability. Most patches are like errata, in that they address minor gameplay issues...but the most glaring problems come from the fact that the developer has no reasonable way to test all the various combinations of hardware and software on a client's system before releasing the software. That's a large chunk of the motivation behind beta-testing.

If the Conan RPG wouldn't work with anyone who used d8s or dice with red pips, it'd be a closer analogy, perhaps.

Is the book really $50, list price? If so, has there been an outcry over the fact? WotC has routinely taken it on the chin for raising the price of some books to $30 and then $40. I'm not questioning the value of Conan at all, (I've never even seen it) I'm just curious if that's been a factor, or if such ire is only reserved for the 800 lb. gorilla.