D&D 5E What the warlord needs in 5e and how to make it happen.

[Tony Vargas]

As I alluded to previously, I think the potential for a bit of confusion and forum angst is better than letting some ill-advised decision from 10 or 20 years ago forever ....

Reaching back to questionable decisions from 10-40 years ago is what D&D is all about! ;P Gotta keep those sacred cows fat & happy, or they'll bring down the apocalypse on our heads. You thought the edition war was bad? Wait until they bring down the edition famine*, edition pestilence, and edition death!




















* Hmm... that was 2011-2014, now that I think about it. Not bad as End Time famines go, someone must have delivered up enough sacred alfalfa to appease the sacred cows.

 

[Satyrn]

Oi. Y'all got me worried they're gonna start naming classes and such like they're European cars.

"Hey guys, my new character is a level 4 680T with the xt20 feat"

"Oh sweet character, dude!"

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Huh. To my mind, the success of the Avenger was that it filled that anime aesthetic of "fast, unarmored guy with a big weapon" that a lot of people (me, included) wanted. Using a mental stat for attacks just compounded that "mind over body" concept.

Yeah, I also dig that concept, but the Avenger was supernaturally divine, and what was cool about it, for me, was the idea of being a character who is so centered and focused in their faith that they could fight with their eyes closed, and the whole, "hyper focus on one enemy at a time, and bring the wrath of heaven down upon their head like fire from the sky" thing.

I'd love to see that in 5e, and if the class also does "unarmored fast guy with a huge sword" as well as the 4e Avenger did, awesome!

 

[TwoSix]

Yeah, I also dig that concept, but the Avenger was supernaturally divine, and what was cool about it, for me, was the idea of being a character who is so centered and focused in their faith that they could fight with their eyes closed, and the whole, "hyper focus on one enemy at a time, and bring the wrath of heaven down upon their head like fire from the sky" thing.

I'd love to see that in 5e, and if the class also does "unarmored fast guy with a huge sword" as well as the 4e Avenger did, awesome!

Agreed. To my mind, that's one of the things that sets apart a good base class concept; you can use it to support concepts that are related but still very discrete. Warlord, Avenger, and Warden are the three classes, to my mind, that were both original and supported a broad range of concepts in 4e.

 

[Garthanos]

Huh. To my mind, the success of the Avenger was that it filled that anime aesthetic of "fast, unarmored guy with a big weapon" that a lot of people (me, included) wanted. Using a mental stat for attacks just compounded that "mind over body" concept.

Very much this!

 

[Hussar]

Honestly "Avenger" is another class name I think would work pretty well for some of this (the Int stuff more than the Cha stuff, imo)...it's colorful, evocative, and not very specific...but I know all you 3.5 and 4.0 players have baggage with existing class names, so....yeah.

Kinda like that name. Never saw the earlier edition version of it, so, I have no baggage. But, considering "The Avengers" is so popular right now, I can totally see this being a decent name for the class.

 

[Hussar]

It's ironic though in light of the new Mystic classes. All the strictly mechanical criticisms of a warlord can pretty much go jump in the lake. I mean, we've got a Path of the Avatar mystic standing there which has ALL of the necessary mechanics for creating a warlord and no one seems too bent out of shape over them. IOW, warlord action granting, healing, buffs and debuffs are all quite acceptable.

So, the only real issue now is, are we allowed to have a class that can do these things without them being expressly supernatural in origin? The only real issue is flavor.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Agreed. To my mind, that's one of the things that sets apart a good base class concept; you can use it to support concepts that are related but still very discrete. Warlord, Avenger, and Warden are the three classes, to my mind, that were both original and supported a broad range of concepts in 4e.

I agree completely.

The warlord is being discussed plenty.

The avenger is a great concept that wasn't used as diversely as it could have been in 4e, IMO. I loved the Covenent Agent build for Avenger/Assassin combinations. I'd love the "standard" big swordy, a Angel of Death archer subclass, and a shadowy Covenent Agent.

Warden has to be one of my favorite concepts from 4e. The Barbarian starts to play with it's concepts in the Totem path, but by Grey Wolf's Teeth I'd love a full class! A Totemic Shaman-Warrior, built like a warlock, with different Primal Spirits he calls upon to become part of him, giving him different powers and transforming his form, with Lesser Spirits that guide, heals, protect, harry enemies, etc, and don't last as long. Perhaps they simply show up, do a thing for a round, and disappear? Maybe you can keep them around with concentration, limiting how many pets you can have at a time.

Maybe have a few different "pact boon" style features, too. One enhances your Spirit Call (summoning minor spirits), another is focused on hitting things real good, another makes you like a 4e Seeker, with a bow, another enhances your Totem Spirit Manifestation?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Kinda like that name. Never saw the earlier edition version of it, so, I have no baggage. But, considering "The Avengers" is so popular right now, I can totally see this being a decent name for the class.

The 4e Avenger is an unarmored holy warrior that added wisdom mod to defense and attack and damage, and had an at-will version of the vengeance paladin's channel divinity Oath of Emnity. They specialized in being hard to get away from, and punishing your for trying, but in a striker way! It was fun.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Yeah, I also dig that concept, but the Avenger was supernaturally divine, and what was cool about it, for me, was the idea of being a character who is so centered and focused in their faith that they could fight with their eyes closed, and the whole, "hyper focus on one enemy at a time, and bring the wrath of heaven down upon their head like fire from the sky" thing.

I'd love to see that in 5e, and if the class also does "unarmored fast guy with a huge sword" as well as the 4e Avenger did, awesome!

Look at the Kensei Monk UA. May require bit of getting your head around, but it gives you a fast unarmoured guy who can swing a greatsword despite the physique of an 8- or 80-year old, and who can get round, through, or over anything between them and the subject of their wrath.