What To Do With Silly, Power-Mongering Players

[Ravellion]

That's high level D&D for you. Try running murder mystery at 18th level. Preferably with a diviner/Psion (seer) in the group. They'd probably know who the murderer was, before they knew who the victim was.

For delicate problems, play shadowrun. For heroic fantasy, swords swinging and spell slinging, play D&D. D&D can still handle politics and power struggle very well though. Just don't expect high level spellcasters to say..."Gee, I'm stumped! I don't know what to do next, since one of my spells doesn't work in this situation." They'll very quickly have solutions for problems.

In fact, the DMG adresses this situation. There's something like (very loosely quoted) "When you make a barrier only disintegrate will break down, against a party who doesn't have disintigrate, at high levels, they'll get through anyway."

Rav

(edit : Spelling)

 

[Holy Bovine]

The problem is not their evil deeds, it is their simple, 'cheap' solutions for the delicate problems they encounter.

I hear here all kinds of arguments that there is always someone more powerfull, and that they will get all paladins of the world on them now. I dont think that it would be realistic to massacre all of them just because of what they did. Or do you send Fzoul or Manshoon after your players because they sabotaged the Zhentarim's works? Of course they will get some attention from some goodie-shoes, but 15th level paladins don't grow on trees. The damage they inflicted was in some small, backwater hamlets and those people don't have the money to pay a big bounty. There is also no powerfull landlord in the area.
I don't mind if they are psychopaths and their alignment turns to evil I just hate when they think that they can walk off with anything. And at the present moment and situation, they CAN.

I would suggest getting them out of the little villages and hamlets. Why would be tough adventurers be in such places to begin with? If you're an adventurer you would (IMO) be near the fringes of civilization if you're seeking adventure.

Places like that should be used to dealing with tough creatures like trolls, giants even dragons on occasion. High-level adventurers shouldn't really be wasting time in safe secure little hamlets.

If these places are small but still secure & safe then someone has to be providing that security. Probably a lot of someones.

If the players just abducted 4 children and take no precautions against being detected (a hat of disguise notwithstanding) a local cleric can cast commune to find out who stole the children. Or they can summon their own planar ally to send against the party.

Changing your party's attitudes towards what they can do is directly linked to having them suffer the consequences of their actions. if bad things happen to them when they go around selling children to demons maybe they will try to find other ways to overcome problems.

 

[Piratecat]

Lots of good advice here. I echo Henry's, and add that the absolutely best way to teach them a lesson is a highly mobile strike force of four good NPCs (paladin, monk, cleric, wizard - make the monk the most powerful) who only attack one character at a time, when that character is alone.

For instance:

Evil PC cleric goes by himself to pray/sleep/go the bathroom/talk to a NPC (like when the children got rounded up.) Good guys had cast a divination for "when is the best time to bring one of these villains to justice?", and are waiting invisibly (and flying)/ethereally/scrying. Once that lone PC is separated from the rest of the group, they swoop in/materialize, already hasted and beefed up with clerical spells such as bulls strength, greater magic weapon, magical vestment, endurance, bless, etc. The monk does a full attack and tries to stun; the other three hit the lone PC HARD with their best attacks, one person making sure that they are poised to disrupt spells. With luck, the lone PC will drop within two rounds. Once this happens, the good guys take his body and wind walk/teleport/dimension door/fly away.

Then, the next day - or two days, or week - they come back for the next PC....

I guarantee that after two PCs have been taken, the others will never want to separate for ANY reason!

If you want to teach them a lesson, don't kill the evil PC. Take his magical items and give them to the good guys, take his holy symbols and spell components and even clothes, then spread the rumor that he's being held in a particular jail. He isn't; it's the good NPCs setting a trap, of course.... or maybe they strand the PC in Mount Celestia, forced to listen to lectures from angels. Or maybe they strand him in a different outer plane, somewhere tough to return from.

You have to walk a fine line between "challenging and fun PC smackdown" and "The DM is out to get us, this game sucks." If you just want to spank your players and teach them a lesson in humility, this method might work. If you just want them to stop the evilness, best to talk to them and say you don't like how the campaign is going.

- Piratecat

 

[Xar]

Oh well, their destruction is allready on the way... the Retriever will lead them straight into a trap. They made some enemies in the past, and now it is payback time... they will be waited by an entire circle of druids, their friends, animal companions, summoned and charmed animals. But the PC's will probably manage to kill half of them and then flee, picking then off one by one later.

As for the location, they operate mostly on the Dragon Coast, between Westgate and Teziir. Mostly small, independent villages, no uber-NPC's. They are planning to settle down somewhere in the area as they found a really nice keep on a small isle at the coast.

Of course there are lots of people that want to punish the PC's, but the main problem is that high-level NPC's don't grow on trees. Many people have seen their wanted-posters, and just a small fraction of them is above 10th level. They allready killed off some of these groups and I cant keep them just comming.

Also, if I wanted to kill them all then I could easily do that, but it wouldn't be realistic. When did it last happen to good PC's that they were systematically hunted down by high-level evil NPC's just because they foiled some of their plans or killed some of the evil organisations members? Good PC's massacre whole groups of evil monsters and organisations, and are (most of the time) not hunted down and killed by an all-out planned attack. Or how else could they survive 'till they reach high levels?

 

[Piratecat]

the main problem is that high-level NPC's don't grow on trees.... When did it last happen to good PC's that they were systematically hunted down by high-level evil NPC's just because they foiled some of their plans or killed some of the evil organisations members?

Heck, I do that to my PCs all the time! One high level evil LE NPC monk started punishing them by ambushing them, knocking them out with subdual damage, and teleporting away; the next day they would be found hanging upside down in a town square: naked, shaved, and branded, all of their items having been given away to poor people or kept by the monk. They hated that guy, but it made for an exciting adventure.

Anyways, I hear you on the "not many high-lvl NPCs." I'd use lower level NPCs with good teamwork who attack only one person at a time. More realistic, and highly effective. But it sounds like you have the situation in hand.

 

[Ravellion]

Also, if I wanted to kill them all then I could easily do that, but it wouldn't be realistic. When did it last happen to good PC's that they were systematically hunted down by high-level evil NPC's just because they foiled some of their plans or killed some of the evil organisations members? Good PC's massacre whole groups of evil monsters and organisations, and are (most of the time) not hunted down and killed by an all-out planned attack. Or how else could they survive 'till they reach high levels?

I disagree. While monolithic evil is is unrealistic, monolithic good isn't. Many times in fantasy the only reason why good wins is because they stick together, while evil fights amongst themselves.

Rav

 

[Orco42]

If they keep doing such things someone powerful will notice....

My choice is the Dark Powers of Ravenloft.

After the mist suckes them into RL just let them continue being evil. After a few of them loose characters they will learn.

 

[your_mother]

Power-Mongers

If this happened in my campaign (whether I were running Shadowrun, Vampire, D&D, or Violence), I would have to ask myself, "What would happen in this situation?" And then very carefully track the spread of information. Chances are, if it's some semi-worthless hamlet with no bards or merchants which visit and travel the area on a regular basis, the rest of the civilized world--or whomever is responsible for governing the location, outside of the hamlet's local mayor, magestrate, etc.--would never know what had happened.

If this is your own personal problem with the way that the game or story is going, then you should discuss it with the players of those characters and try to find a solution.

If this is a problem within the game where there are no balances for the player character's actions, then you must work to create some. If they simply do not exist, then perhaps you should make a mental note of it and then try to draw them into a more balancing situation/location, etc. Bait a hook and try to draw them away so that they're actually challenged, as opposed to rolling unstopped over everything.

Or alternately, allow them to settle in and do whatever they want--if that's what the situation permits--and see how long it takes for them to get bored with the usual, 'subvert the town, torture the villagers, chuckle about the fact that no one else is around to challenge us, and go to bed' routine.

Chances are, even if they establish a stable foundation from which to launch attacks, etc. etc. upon the rest of your campaign, they will eventually put themselves into a more balanced situation--as your story and game world dictate; if it didn't, why hasn't evil crushed the realms completely already?--and it is that situation in which they will be challenged, punished, and possibly rewarded if they survive.

 

[Xar]

Oh, I have it hand, thats for sure. If they go too far they will be killed. All of them. But it seems to hard to me to just say: "Well, now you crossed the line, Elminster pops up and kill you all..." (luckily he can't do that anymore, they killed him a while ago). Also, I can't let the landlord go to them and say: "You have been naughty, plz be good or we'll be very angry..."

There is no good middle ground for punishing evil characters if they go to far. And that's what my characters need at the moment. If they keep going like this they will create enemies they can't beat. Right now, they will be waited by some of their long-time 'friends', but I am sure they will survive the encounter. And then they will get even more arrogant and will go even further as 'there is noone to stop us'. PC, did your players became afraid of this monk? So afraid that they seriously thought about stopping harassing him, for next time they would be dead? I think that only such a situation could stop my players to act so foolishly

 

[Hand of Vecna]

How'd they kill the Big E?