What Tumble variant do you use?

[SableWyvern]

Wow a 7th level guy can do that. You'd think that a guy who is a one in a 1000 or even rarer tumbler would still be a total sucker. Wow it's neat to know that if I actually devote a good number of skill points and am a exceptionally powerful individual I can actually do something with my skills.

Well, I'm a god, and it's good to know that this 7th level tumbler can get past me as easily as he can an angry rat.

 

[hong]

Wow a 7th level guy can do that. You'd think that a guy who is a one in a 1000 or even rarer tumbler would still be a total sucker. Wow it's neat to know that if I actually devote a good number of skill points and am a exceptionally powerful individual I can actually do something with my skills.

You know, you could replace "tumble" with "bash with my axe" in the above, and it would still make just as much sense.

 

[0-hr]

tumble around dc= 10 plus BAB of person being avoided
tumble through DC 20 + BAB of person being avoided.

I like this idea, mainly because it avoids rolling a die while still upping the difficulty with the opponent. With this system, you can just tell the rogue what the BAB is the first time he tries it, and then he can take it from there.

The S&S method just looks like two attack rolls to me, which could confuse things in the heat of battle. Personally, I'd still want to throw in a "fail by five, end up prone" clause somewhere in there

 

[Bavix]

I use a variant Tumble rule that just uses the character's Tumble ranks as an AC bonus. I don't have the tumbler and the opponent make opposed rolls to see if the opponent gets an AoO, the opponent always has the option and decides whether to take it or not.

This option really makes rogues (or whoever) helpful when fighting creatures with reach. If the tumbler moves in first and draws the opponent's AoO the rest of the party can charge in safely (unless the creature has Combat Reflexes of course). If the opponent gets an opposed roll to see IF he gets an AoO this tactic is kinda useless. It's basically like the opponnent says "I know I can't hit that guy so I'll just wait for his friends" instead of taking a wild swing and hoping he hits.

The formula for this variant is:

Tumble AC (through threatened area) = Normal AC + skill ranks + Jump synergy bonus (if applicable) + feat bonuses (dodge, mobility, etc) - armor check penalty.

Tumble AC (through occupied area) = As above but -10 to AC.

If a tumbling character is struck she must make a Tumble check (DC 10 + damage taken) or fall prone in the square she was struck.

 

[mikebr99]

I use a variant Tumble rule that just uses the character's Tumble ranks as an AC bonus.

What happens if the thief also has skill-focus (or DEX bonus for that matter) in Tumbling? Does this +2 (or house ruled to +3) count to AC also? Skill focus isn't a Rank bonus, unless you have house ruled that also.

 

[IceBear]

I like this idea, mainly because it avoids rolling a die while still upping the difficulty with the opponent. With this system, you can just tell the rogue what the BAB is the first time he tries it, and then he can take it from there.

The S&S method just looks like two attack rolls to me, which could confuse things in the heat of battle. Personally, I'd still want to throw in a "fail by five, end up prone" clause somewhere in there

The trouble with this is, you have to calculate the BAB. I know it isn't much work, but most of the monster's in the MM have STR, etc factored into their attack bonuses, so you just can't look at that and use it.

I like it in that it removes the randomness of a dice roll, but I also dislike it in that it removes the randomness of a dice roll

Using the S&S method (with house rules for falling down) has worked for us.

IceBear

 

[Plane Sailing]

Why do people, want to totally cheese out tumble. All we are talking about is an ability to avoid AoO.

I think it is about more than this though. If it were just the tumble past someone, I'd agree - the problem (for me) comes from the standard PHB rendering that means that any attempt to tumble through a solid line of enemies *always gets past them*. Worst case is you get some AoO against you which could well miss (if you have mobility and are "fighting full defense" (assuming allowed by your DM) you get +10 to your AC against those AoO anyway.

So I think it is the "tumble through" which is too powerful. Roll a 1 and still get through everyone.

 

[Darklone]

I am using the BAB variant too since Old One proposed a similar one. Before I had the Tumble check replaced your AC.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I think it is about more than this though. If it were just the tumble past someone, I'd agree - the problem (for me) comes from the standard PHB rendering that means that any attempt to tumble through a solid line of enemies *always gets past them*. Worst case is you get some AoO against you which could well miss (if you have mobility and are "fighting full defense" (assuming allowed by your DM) you get +10 to your AC against those AoO anyway.

So I think it is the "tumble through" which is too powerful. Roll a 1 and still get through everyone.

I can agree with this. But that doesn't have much to do with the check itself. I definetly can see a problem with that there is no penalty for failure. Me I'd of made it similar to climb, fail and there isn't a big problem, fail by 5 or more nad you got problems. In other words a small failure you maybe can still move past, fail by 5 or more you get stopped. Though personally I've always had fail tumble bad enough you fall prone. And I could see as a small failure getting stopped working.

As for the DC I think Shallown's idea is the best. It is a DC that is different depending on the opponent. Yet isn't an opposed check, that isn't magically automatic for the AOO guy as a default.

Again I don't think it is necessary, spring attack easily duplicates this and more with no check for failure. All we are talking about is an AoO, and someone could always ready an action to stop the tumbler if they were really worried about it, and if they can't ready an action chances are they are otherwise occupied with an opponent so sneaking past them without an AoO shouldn't stretch the immagination, in fact I find it harder to believe someone could automatically get an AoO against someone simply running past them while engaged with even moderate opposition.

 

[Baron Von StarBlade]

I proposed a variant Tumble rule to my gaming group where the opponent gets a Reflex save vs. the Tumble roll (assuming the tumbler makes the target number from the PHB). If the opponent makes the save he can take an AoO, however the tumbler gets a +4 Dodge bonus (since he did make his target tumble). We use the same rule for Defensive Casting. The group seems to like it and it makes tumbling/casting a little more dangerous at higher levels.