What turns you off in a purchased adventure?
- Thread starter Derulbaskul
- Start date
random user
First Post
Wow I never realized the hatred for real names. What in specific bothers you? I just counted; I have 95 named NPCs in 18 sessions. I try to mix up real and non-real names, but I think that as long as you have a good mix, it's not too bad. I have a hard enough time coming up with names in general, having to make sure they aren't real names would make my head hurt.
In a string of names like Janson, Ash, Jasrina, Courtney, Kalagas, Kendra, Lydia, and Menro, do Lydia and Courtney really stick out like a sore thumb (or Ash, which one could claim is a name)? (And for all I know others are names too that I just don't know.)
Or do you think they are all distasteful because they aren't long enough?
In a string of names like Janson, Ash, Jasrina, Courtney, Kalagas, Kendra, Lydia, and Menro, do Lydia and Courtney really stick out like a sore thumb (or Ash, which one could claim is a name)? (And for all I know others are names too that I just don't know.)
Or do you think they are all distasteful because they aren't long enough?
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
1. Names are a big deal for me to. I hate modern sounding names, silly names (unless it's an unashamedly silly module), unpronounceable names, and I'm growing to really detest flowery elven names like Tallwillow Treestrider and such. Real world names are ideal as long as they don't sound too modern. Babs, Woody, Jim, Bubba, Vicky, Nicky, and Mike as the named NPCs would ruin the fantasy feel of a module. If those names were Heraclitus, Cicero, Julius, Perpetua, Sextus, Quintus, Hestia, and Penelope, it would work well (as long as it was supposed to have a Greco-Roman feel). If the names were Hallbjorn, Hjallti, Skeggi, William, Ungit, Siegerda, Brynhild, Gunnar, Grettir, and Njal, it'll work fine. If the names are Arthur, Percival, Vivien, Gareth, Lot, Agravaine, Morgana, Pellenor, and Gaheris, it'll work fine too. Tossing a few more modern sounding names like Martin, Peter, Michael, Elizabeth, Mary, Joseph, John, etc in among those names works fine too though if all of the names were in contemporary usage, it wouldn't seem right.
2. Overuse or inappropriate use of templates. If the first encounter has a shadow halfing, the second encounter has a fire-elemental dragon, the third encounter is feral lizardmen, the fourth encounter is a half-golem troglodyte, and the last encounter includes a Yuan Ti and a half dragon, you've used too darn many templates. Just give me some plain monsters every now and then or make the template a theme of the dungeon. Similarly, if you start statting up half-troll worgs and toss them into a module without a mad wizard grafting troll flesh onto worgs, you're misusing templates. Players shouldn't start making jokes about the troll fens where the trolls wear velcro gloves and the worgs are scared.
3. Modules whose plots don't make sense. So, you went to great expense and effort to kidnap us and blackmail us into assaulting your enemies for you? Why not just hire mercenaries who might not want to stab you in the back for more money? For that matter, what is it that we can do that you (who were able to kidnap us successfully) can't?
4. Modules that expect highly unrealistic player actions--or at least that don't anticipate predictable player reactions.
So, you'll kill the captain's village if we don't help your evil organization?
Yes, our monsters are on the way as we speak.
And what's to guarantee that you won't kill them anyway?
Our word.
And what's that worth? Forget that, I know what your word is worth; what's to stop you from threatening them again when we finish this?
nothing
The we don't buy your blackmail; eat flamestrike... Mr wizard, can you teleport us to the captain's village; surely he can give you a good description or you can read his mind to get one.
Well, he probably should be able to do that but the module assumes you'll give in to the bad guys so the adventure is over. Rocks fall and everyone dies.
5. Moral dilemmas that aren't.
So, do you support the obviously deranged heretic burning crowd that magically poses no threat to you and free the innocent, virginal victims of racist, bigoted oppression, or do you join them? Yeah right. If you want a moral dilemma, make it a real dilemma. Either the crowd will turn on you if you don't go along with them or the people are really guilty or something has to be there in order to make the choice either a choice between what's convenient and safe vs. what's right or either a choice between the lesser of two evils or between two goods. Otherwise, it's not a dilemma.
6. NPCs that don't have the skills to do what they're supposed to do. A successful merchant with no ranks in sense motive. A skilled and feared fighter who singlehandedly defeated an orc warband... and is second level with really weak stats.
7. NPCs with godlike stats for everyone the PCs meet. I don't mind the odd character with better stats than the PCs. I don't mind if most adventurer types and successful self-made men have stats similar to the PCs. But if every city guard has an 18 strength, a 16 con, and a +1 halberd and +1 breastplate when the PCs are struggling to find masterwork equipment and are left with no mental stats if they go for an 18 and a 16 (point buy), it gets rather frustrating.
8. Bad guys who act evil but aren't.
So, my legionaire of doom, who guards the slave pens and kicks the slaves who step out of line and protects my sacrificial chamber where I make the blood golems, are you evil?
no.
Why not?
If I were evil, I'd be vulnerable to Holy Smite and Smite Evil and Magic Circle Against Evil would protect against my attacks. PCs expect the servants of the evil empire to be evil so I'm going to be neutral--hey I'm just doing my job torturing innocents and beating the slaves. Even when I have fun doing that, I'm just doing what's socially expected in my circle of peers. So I'm neutral not evil.
Yeah right.
9. Bad guys who are evil because they want to be evil. Give me NPCs willing to do evil to get power, NPCs willing to do evil for love, sex, spite, vengeance, pleasure, whatever. But let's not pretend that bad guys are selflessly devoted to the pursuit of evil. They should be selfishly devoted to things that lead them into evil instead.
10. NPCs getting all cloak and dagger about stuff that's perfectly obvious to anyone who cares to look. "Swear unconditionally, that you won't tell anyone that I'm buying grain in town." As if anyone who wants to know can't just watch where the crates are coming from and figure out you're buying grain. Etc.
11. NPCs who are doing stuff they shouldn't be able to do--like unobtrusively sneaking through a crowd of workers WITH FIRE SHIELD ACTIVE. Not so unobtrusive when you're IMMOLATED IN FLAME are you? Or did the author forget to mention all the common laborers are fire elementals rather than humans like one might otherwise think.
2. Overuse or inappropriate use of templates. If the first encounter has a shadow halfing, the second encounter has a fire-elemental dragon, the third encounter is feral lizardmen, the fourth encounter is a half-golem troglodyte, and the last encounter includes a Yuan Ti and a half dragon, you've used too darn many templates. Just give me some plain monsters every now and then or make the template a theme of the dungeon. Similarly, if you start statting up half-troll worgs and toss them into a module without a mad wizard grafting troll flesh onto worgs, you're misusing templates. Players shouldn't start making jokes about the troll fens where the trolls wear velcro gloves and the worgs are scared.
3. Modules whose plots don't make sense. So, you went to great expense and effort to kidnap us and blackmail us into assaulting your enemies for you? Why not just hire mercenaries who might not want to stab you in the back for more money? For that matter, what is it that we can do that you (who were able to kidnap us successfully) can't?
4. Modules that expect highly unrealistic player actions--or at least that don't anticipate predictable player reactions.
So, you'll kill the captain's village if we don't help your evil organization?
Yes, our monsters are on the way as we speak.
And what's to guarantee that you won't kill them anyway?
Our word.
And what's that worth? Forget that, I know what your word is worth; what's to stop you from threatening them again when we finish this?
nothing
The we don't buy your blackmail; eat flamestrike... Mr wizard, can you teleport us to the captain's village; surely he can give you a good description or you can read his mind to get one.
Well, he probably should be able to do that but the module assumes you'll give in to the bad guys so the adventure is over. Rocks fall and everyone dies.
5. Moral dilemmas that aren't.
So, do you support the obviously deranged heretic burning crowd that magically poses no threat to you and free the innocent, virginal victims of racist, bigoted oppression, or do you join them? Yeah right. If you want a moral dilemma, make it a real dilemma. Either the crowd will turn on you if you don't go along with them or the people are really guilty or something has to be there in order to make the choice either a choice between what's convenient and safe vs. what's right or either a choice between the lesser of two evils or between two goods. Otherwise, it's not a dilemma.
6. NPCs that don't have the skills to do what they're supposed to do. A successful merchant with no ranks in sense motive. A skilled and feared fighter who singlehandedly defeated an orc warband... and is second level with really weak stats.
7. NPCs with godlike stats for everyone the PCs meet. I don't mind the odd character with better stats than the PCs. I don't mind if most adventurer types and successful self-made men have stats similar to the PCs. But if every city guard has an 18 strength, a 16 con, and a +1 halberd and +1 breastplate when the PCs are struggling to find masterwork equipment and are left with no mental stats if they go for an 18 and a 16 (point buy), it gets rather frustrating.
8. Bad guys who act evil but aren't.
So, my legionaire of doom, who guards the slave pens and kicks the slaves who step out of line and protects my sacrificial chamber where I make the blood golems, are you evil?
no.
Why not?
If I were evil, I'd be vulnerable to Holy Smite and Smite Evil and Magic Circle Against Evil would protect against my attacks. PCs expect the servants of the evil empire to be evil so I'm going to be neutral--hey I'm just doing my job torturing innocents and beating the slaves. Even when I have fun doing that, I'm just doing what's socially expected in my circle of peers. So I'm neutral not evil.
Yeah right.
9. Bad guys who are evil because they want to be evil. Give me NPCs willing to do evil to get power, NPCs willing to do evil for love, sex, spite, vengeance, pleasure, whatever. But let's not pretend that bad guys are selflessly devoted to the pursuit of evil. They should be selfishly devoted to things that lead them into evil instead.
10. NPCs getting all cloak and dagger about stuff that's perfectly obvious to anyone who cares to look. "Swear unconditionally, that you won't tell anyone that I'm buying grain in town." As if anyone who wants to know can't just watch where the crates are coming from and figure out you're buying grain. Etc.
11. NPCs who are doing stuff they shouldn't be able to do--like unobtrusively sneaking through a crowd of workers WITH FIRE SHIELD ACTIVE. Not so unobtrusive when you're IMMOLATED IN FLAME are you? Or did the author forget to mention all the common laborers are fire elementals rather than humans like one might otherwise think.
Nice list - I'm a bit unsure about this one:
>>NPCs with godlike stats for everyone the PCs meet. I don't mind the odd character with better stats than the PCs. I don't mind if most adventurer types and successful self-made men have stats similar to the PCs. But if every city guard has an 18 strength, a 16 con, and a +1 halberd and +1 breastplate when the PCs are struggling to find masterwork equipment and are left with no mental stats if they go for an 18 and a 16 (point buy), it gets rather frustrating.<<
I'm a bit sick of 'mundane' NPCS being treated with contempt by even low-level PCs; the 0-level men-at-arms in AD&D and now the city guards in D&D are supposedly pathetic mostly-Warrior-1s. Given that most city guards are long-service professionals who've probably seen far more action - riots, tavern brawls, violent arrests - than most soldiers, I think they probably should have much better stats than all-10s or similar; I now tend to use something like War-3 w STR 14 & CON 14, AC 16 27 hp ATT +6 (wpn focus) dam 1d10+3 (halberd), 3-pt power att +3 dam 1d10+9, for a typical experienced city guard. No magic gear in my low-magic game, but it would be appropriate for high-magic settings where the gear would be owned by the city of course, not the guard. With these kind of stats the guards can keep order among low-level ruffians without always relying on a friendly Sleep-casting Wizard.
>>NPCs with godlike stats for everyone the PCs meet. I don't mind the odd character with better stats than the PCs. I don't mind if most adventurer types and successful self-made men have stats similar to the PCs. But if every city guard has an 18 strength, a 16 con, and a +1 halberd and +1 breastplate when the PCs are struggling to find masterwork equipment and are left with no mental stats if they go for an 18 and a 16 (point buy), it gets rather frustrating.<<
I'm a bit sick of 'mundane' NPCS being treated with contempt by even low-level PCs; the 0-level men-at-arms in AD&D and now the city guards in D&D are supposedly pathetic mostly-Warrior-1s. Given that most city guards are long-service professionals who've probably seen far more action - riots, tavern brawls, violent arrests - than most soldiers, I think they probably should have much better stats than all-10s or similar; I now tend to use something like War-3 w STR 14 & CON 14, AC 16 27 hp ATT +6 (wpn focus) dam 1d10+3 (halberd), 3-pt power att +3 dam 1d10+9, for a typical experienced city guard. No magic gear in my low-magic game, but it would be appropriate for high-magic settings where the gear would be owned by the city of course, not the guard. With these kind of stats the guards can keep order among low-level ruffians without always relying on a friendly Sleep-casting Wizard.
Drifter Bob
First Post
Names
One thing I do when I'm running or writing an adventure is to take one of my old hoary medieval or classical era history books and open up the appendix and copy down a bunch of the names. You can get good place and landscape feature (rivers, mountains) names this way. I got a lot of really good ones from Herodotus and Xenophon, and a really good list from Hans Delbrucks medieval warfare. Want some names that sound like knights? Some actually knightly names work well. This is doubly or triply true when your players don't know a lot of history. I had a great NPC crooked knight named Bohemond in my last campaign who's brother was named Charles Martel. The names alone made them a scary pair!
DB
One thing I do when I'm running or writing an adventure is to take one of my old hoary medieval or classical era history books and open up the appendix and copy down a bunch of the names. You can get good place and landscape feature (rivers, mountains) names this way. I got a lot of really good ones from Herodotus and Xenophon, and a really good list from Hans Delbrucks medieval warfare. Want some names that sound like knights? Some actually knightly names work well. This is doubly or triply true when your players don't know a lot of history. I had a great NPC crooked knight named Bohemond in my last campaign who's brother was named Charles Martel. The names alone made them a scary pair!
DB
Inconsequenti-AL
Breaks Games
lord_banus said:
Publish it. I'd buy it
I have quite a few 2nd ed books took this route - although they were all campaign specific. I find them useful tools for building adventures from. Normally something in there that catches the imagination.
The other format I'd like to see is the way Shadowrun modules were laid out. Tended to be event driven stuff, laid out in scenes. Had a nice entry and exit section from each and realised the players would have a lot of possible ways of solving most of them. Found those a joy to run.
As far as dislikes go:
1)Background that the players are never going to find out. Makes some nice DM reading... but at worst can end up with an adventure that is a lot cooler from the DMs side of the screen than the players. That sucks.
2)Railroading. Especially if it involves something that annoys the heck out of players - party capture springs to mind.
3)Copping out of dealing with powers. For example, if it's a 15th level module that doesn't account for the teleport factor then I'm not interested. Not generally happy with an 'it just doesn't work' solution - unless theres a solid reason why.
4)Incorrect stat blocks. Tends to make me see red. Pet peeve. Get a proofreader!
Derulbaskul
Adventurer
Elder-Basilisk said:
Yep, definitely agree with this. This started in 1E with EGG's modules and remains a problem all too often. I prepare my NPCs using point-buy. Generic NPCs get 25 points, named NPCs get 32 points and plot-critical named NPCs get 36 points. PCs get 42 points so they remain ahead of the curve (and, yes, I realise a lot of people would consider this high-powered or even overpowered).
DragonLancer
Hero
Elder-Basilisk said:
I wish modules didn't have every watch captain, lowly cleric, and simple commoner own magical arms and armour. Magical items are not meant to be dime a dozen.
Also, the amount of treasure given out in modules is often far far too high. Scale it back down abit.
Derulbaskul
Adventurer
DragonLancer said:
I must admit, I haven't seen that in any of the 3E modules I own. I realise, though, that it was a big problem in 1E and 2E.
Similar Threads
