D&D 4E What was Paizo thinking? 3.75 the 4E clone?

[hazel monday]

Paizo has the most talented adventure writers in the RPG biz right now.
While WOTC has the most popular brand name in the biz right now.
Talent or a brand name?
Which is more important to me as a consumer?
Hmmmm. Tough choice.

 

[Wormwood]

Paizo has the most talented adventure writers in the RPG biz right now.
While WOTC has the most popular brand name in the biz right now.
Talent or a brand name?
Which is more important to me as a consumer?
Hmmmm. Tough choice.

Yeah, *that's* why I think 4e is a superior game in nearly every respect to 3.5 (or Pathfinder): Product identity.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Shroomy]

Paizo has the most talented adventure writers in the RPG biz right now.
While WOTC has the most popular brand name in the biz right now.
Talent or a brand name?
Which is more important to me as a consumer?
Hmmmm. Tough choice.

However, you said adventure writers not game designers, and we're talking about a game system.

 

[hazel monday]

Thanks for clearing that up.

Glad I could help!

Seriously though, All my favorite designers write adventures for Paizo. So for me, it's kind of a no brainer to keep buying Paizo stuff and to play the system that supports their stuff.
If I picked up 4E, it would only due to brand name recognition, because I'm not familiar with the 4E designers previous work, or I've checked out their work and found it not to be to my tastes.
If the opposite holds true for you that's great. I'm glad you have a system coming that you think will be more to your liking than the current one.
I'm also glad that each of us has choice if we want to see our chosen game systems supported.

 

[hazel monday]

However, you said adventure writers not game designers, and we're talking about a game system.

To me they're the same thing. Good adventures are just as important as game mechanics (if not more so).

 

[Belen]

I frequent a few forums, and there are people in every thread I've seen on the topic saying "I'm canceling Pathfinder over this". It isn't anything like MOST of the people in the threads, but there's enough of them to make me think 'maybe there's a larger trend.' It also appears to the naked eye to be more people than I've seen saying "Well I didn't subscribe to pathfinder at all before, but I'm going to now" which is why I'm wondering where all these new Paizo customers are. Perhaps just not on the internet - but there's no way there's 2 million of them.

Simple. The people such as me who did subscribe to Pathfinder because of this news do not need to go about various messageboards with pitchforks because Paizo "betrayed 4e." You are only seeing the angry folks.

Personally, I think most are just offended because the anti-4e crowd now has a solution that allows them to avoid 4e and have a new rulebook that they can point new potential gamers too. Before the pro-4e folks were certain in the superiority of their game and that the people who did not like 4e did not have a choice.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Paizo has the most talented adventure writers in the RPG biz right now.
While WOTC has the most popular brand name in the biz right now.
Talent or a brand name?
Which is more important to me as a consumer?
Hmmmm. Tough choice.

I'd add:
WOTC has the most talented game designers in the RPG biz right now.
Game Design Talent or Adventure Writing Talent?
That's not a fair choice. I want both.

So, maybe I have to retract my statement. This isn't the best of both worlds. It might be the best we can hope for giving the lack of GSL and lead-in times for creating 4E or 3.x products. (And that's hardly Paizos fault.)

My best hope in regards to Paizos game design skills (a) are better then what I believe them to be (but anecdotical evidence from monsters in some of their adventure paths makes me reserve some doubts) and (b) will improve.
My best hope in regards to WotC adventure writing talent is that they will improve. (I don't really know if they are bad or good, since I haven't played a lot of their adventures in the past. But I always want improvement. Even if that's impossible )

 

[dmccoy1693]

Take a look at the authors of some of the best WotC 3.5 books.
Quick Amazon Search reveals:

Erik Mona
Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk
Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss

James Jacobs
Frostburn
Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss

Jason Bulmahn
Dungeonscape
Secrets of Xen'drik

Mike McArtor
Complete Scoundrel
Spell Compendium

Now please, tell me again, how their stuff is low quality? I'd love to hear your opinions on every single one of these books as well.

 

[Nikosandros]

Maybe because people's timeframes are not dependant on GenCon?

I know my interest in a non-4E Pathfinder is pretty much 0, and this means I'll not be taking out a subscription to it any time soon.

I was referring to people that are currently subscribing. They already knew that the current AP (and most likely the next one as well) were going to be 3.5, so why cancel now?

 

[billd91]

I really like Paizo's products, but I think the Pathfinder RPG is going to end up being a net loss. Directly competing with 4E is not a winning strategy. Over time, there aren't going to be enough "3rd ed grognards" to support an alternate game. How many people do you know who are still playing 2nd ed? Or 3.0 without any 3.5 enhancements? Likely, very few.

Once 4E is released, players are going to flock to it. We tend to like new, shiny things, and 4E is about as new and as shiny as it gets. Six months to a year after 4E's release, I doubt you'll be able to find too many 3.5 games going on.

But are they directly competing? If the question was about going for D&D market dominance, then yes Paizo would "lose". But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about carving out a niche of the market and serving it while that niche is there. In other words: making hay while the sun shines. That's why I don't think it will be a net loss. The competition they are in is a bit more tangential since they are focusing primarily on different parts of the market.

And as far as whether or not there will be many 3.5 games going on 6 months after 4e hits the market, I'd take that bet and take your money. Even if 4e gains the majority of the games out there, there will still be plenty of 3.5 games out there to find after a paltry 6 months.