What was the difference between the 3s? Forked Thread: Anyone still using 3.0?

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

Forked from: Anyone still using 3.0?

I am one of the few that preferred 3.0 to 3.5 as I felt the rules changes were unnecessary or in some cases completely changed the flavour of the game.

There are people who make comments like this about how they like some things in 3.0 better than 3.5, but other than the conversion document on the WotC site and the three 3.0 books I own (neither core) I don't have any sources on the difference. I can't really see any, so I'm curious as to what things were important enough that people make a distinction between them.

This isn't any sort of edition war thread, I'm not suggesting that people shouldn't see a difference, I'm just unclear on what it is myself and would like to know.

 

[Rechan]

The first thing I can remember is that spells were altered. Haste granted an extra standard action. Harm reduced the target to 1d4 HP. Many spells had longer durations.

The Gnome had illusionist as a favored class, the ranger got TWF/Ambidext free (instead of having the bow-focused option).

 

[Nagol]

Off the top of my head,

The Ranger got a great revamp. The Monk was improved as well. Druids got more powerful -- like they needed it.

Many spells were revised. Some for power/abuse issues like Haste and spells that augment PCS (buffs if you will) got reduced to 1 Min/level from 1 hour/level. Some to reduce flexibility, like Flame Arrow and Otliuke's Freezing Sphere, some to reduce variabilty removing the ability to apply metamagic, some were changed in level, and others had name or fluff changes. Sleep was hit with the nerf stick 3? 4? times (became full round casting, got a saving throw, no variability in effect, and reduced area of effect)

Damage Reduction got a complete new ruleset leading fighter types to adopt a golf bag of weapons.

Skills were tweaked with a couple going away.

Power Atack was redone. Other feats went through changes.

Prestige classes were no longer explicitly exempted from favoured class limitations. (FAQ said they were, but no rule was ever published.)

New cut-and-paste errors crept in. Errata that had been applied to 3.0 was removed (either intentionally or not).

 

[miscreationist]

I am glad this is still being hosted somewhere since the original seems to be offline now:

Changes for Dungeons and Dragons 3.5, collected by Steven Cooper

It has a nice way of showing what changed.

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

It has a nice way of showing what changed.

But it doesn't give any insight into what things were like before the change. For example I still have no idea how the Scry skill worked.

I essentially need the opposite version.

 

[Nagol]

You could always peruse the 3.0 SRD at SYSTEM REFERENCE DOCUMENT

That'll give you the game mechanical flavour of 3.0.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Off the top of my head,

The Ranger got a great revamp. The Monk was improved as well. Druids got more powerful -- like they needed it.

Ranger was a nice revamp, and overal slightly more powerful, though the HD did drop in return for the skill points and extra save. Monks got a bit stronger, especially flurry of blows and how BAB works for a multiclassed monk. But they also lost some things, iirc. Druid...I don't know how it got stronger, but I know it got weaker in some ways. They lost the ability to have an animal army via animal companion, which I kind of miss. IIRC, there used to be polymorph self and polymorph other, and druids got at least one of those two, instead of neither (combined into one spell, roughly) in 3.5.

The thing I miss most are the weapon rules. In 3.0, a medium longsword could be picked up and used as a small greatsword, for example. A lot of people groaned and said it wasn't realistic, but 3.5's rules make it a LOT harder to play a small warrior, as almost all the nice loot you'll find isn't sized right for you.

Specifically on weapons, shuriken changed a lot. I think you could fire 3 per iterative attack in 3.0, but for 1 damage and no str modifier (and SA only once per iterative, if not in the PH, then clarifed in one of the soft-cover splats). This made them potentially amazing for throwing volleys of poison, but otherwise worthless.

Some of the coolest non-core prestige classes never got a reprint and thus are debatable if allowed in 3.5: Deepwood Sniper, Lasher, Weapon Master...I miss you all.

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

You could always peruse the 3.0 SRD at SYSTEM REFERENCE DOCUMENT

That'll give you the game mechanical flavour of 3.0.

Ah, thank you: I didn't even realize this still existed.

 

[Rechan]

Some of the coolest non-core prestige classes never got a reprint and thus are debatable if allowed in 3.5: Deepwood Sniper, Lasher, Weapon Master...I miss you all.

My favorite that didn't get a reprint was the one from Sword and Fist, the "No Named Warrior" PrC whose name I forget.

 

[avin]

the rapier crit combo was nerfed, tx god.