What We Lose When We Eliminate Controversial Content

[MGibster]

It is concern about the fact that for much of the history of the hobby, people who don’t conform to a very narrow interpretation of history have been made to feel unwelcome in the hobby as evidenced by the fact that up until about five years or so ago, there were virtually no women in the hobby as well as very nearly no inclusion of anything that wasn’t 100% geared for white males.

I don't believe there were virtually zero women in RPGs just 5 years ago. How did you arrive at that conclusion?

 

[Bagpuss]

I don't believe there were virtually zero women in RPGs just 5 years ago. How did you arrive at that conclusion?

I mean to be fair when you get to a certain age, what you think was five years ago was actually more like twenty. At least that's my experience.

 

[Micah Sweet]

D&D does: 12+.

Which means it's not even PG-13.

How many PG-rated shows and movies show the horrors of slavery? Probably not that many.

I was thinking more by product. You can easily put a higher rating on products with controversial content, if 12 is too young.

 

[Bagpuss]

D&D does: 12+.

Which means it's not even PG-13.

How many PG-rated shows and movies show the horrors of slavery? Probably not that many.

If you are talking Dark Sun, are you really detailing the horrors of slavery, like 12 years a Slave (2013) which was a 15 in the UK, or are you more talking how Spartacus (1960) deals with a slave revolt, but is a PG. I mean it's more down to how things are dealt with, than the topic itself.

 

[Imaro]

If you are talking Dark Sun, are you really detailing the horrors of slavery, like 12 years a Slave (2013) which was a 15 in the UK, or are you more talking how Spartacus (1960) deals with a slave revolt, but is a PG. I mean it's more down to how things are dealt with, than the topic itself.

Since slavery is a fundamental aspect of Dark Sun society as opposed to say a throwaway line for one race that could easily be excluded from any particular campaign and/or that aspect of the race easily excluded, I'd say your assessment is spot on and part of the issue. Do you sugarcoat the presentation? Because that kind of creates this cartoony, sanitized version of slavery and it's effects on the people subjected to it as well as their descendants, especially those with more modern/recent ties to it... and some/many could find that presentation of it as disrespectful or dismissive.

 

[Thourne]

Since slavery is a fundamental aspect of Dark Sun society as opposed to say a throwaway line for one race that could easily be excluded from any particular campaign and/or that aspect of the race easily excluded, I'd say your assessment is spot on and part of the issue. Do you sugarcoat the presentation? Because that kind of creates this cartoony, sanitized version of slavery and it's effects on the people subjected to it as well as their descendants, especially those with more modern/recent ties to it... and some/many could find that presentation of it as disrespectful or dismissive.

This got me thinking and that lead me to The Prince of Eygpt. It has been a few yea...decades, maybe, since I saw it but I seem to remember it handling the slavery in a way that was impactful but also suitable for the starting age group of most ttrpgs. The movie was only rated PG.

 

[Cadence]

If you are talking Dark Sun, are you really detailing the horrors of slavery, like 12 years a Slave (2013) which was a 15 in the UK, or are you more talking how Spartacus (1960) deals with a slave revolt, but is a PG. I mean it's more down to how things are dealt with, than the topic itself.

Just to note that PG-13 didn't become a thing in the US until July 1984. Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom and Gremlins apparently inspired the creation of PG-13, but are still listed as PG. So I'm guessing that using movies older than that doesn't say anything about PG vs. PG-13 in the US.

Motion Picture Association film rating system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Edit: Hm. Spartacus seems to have been re-rated in 1991 as PG-13 (when it was restored). I'm guessing the original was unrated, and then have been rated M in 1968 which was then changed to GP in 1970 and PG in 1972?

 

[Thourne]

Just to note that PG-13 didn't become a thing in the US until July 1984. Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom and Gremlins apparently inspired the creation of PG-13, but are still listed as PG. So I'm guessing that using movies older than that doesn't say anything about PG vs. PG-13 in the US.

Motion Picture Association film rating system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Edit: Hm. Spartacus seems to have been re-rated as PG-13 according to google?

Well the rabbit hole goes deeper. There wasn't even have a rating system like we have now when Spartacus was released

 

[Cadence]

Well the rabbit hole goes deeper. There wasn't even have a rating system like we have now when Spartacus was released

Ninja'd me. I was just re-editing my post to add in the M to GP to PG

 

[Thourne]

Ninja'd me. I was just re-editing my post to add in the M to GP to PG

Who knows, by the time this thread goes quiet the system may have changed and it is adjusted again