What We Lose When We Eliminate Controversial Content

[Faolyn]

Beyonce know what makes her attractive and thus delivers on that.
An artist knows what is appealing about a woman and thus delivers on that.
The argument is that the latter is sexist. Do you agree?

Music videos and RPG books are not the same thing.

 

[Thourne]

Music videos and RPG books are not the same thing.

Passive vs interactive and all that.

 

[BrokenTwin]

I continue to advocate for equal opportunity sexiness art. With the previously noted caveat that few male artists seem to know how to draw attractive men vs powerful men. Conan is not drawn to be attractive, he's drawn to be powerful, regardless of him wearing little more than a loincloth. There was a good example of a piece of 40k Guardsman art that I saw and immediately knew was drawn by a woman, because the character was rendered and posed in a way that made him clearly intended to be attractive. Without showing much skin, mind.
Edit: the artwork in question:

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Okay and everything Joel Schumacher has made yes

 

[Thourne]

I continue to advocate for equal opportunity sexiness art. With the previously noted caveat that few male artists seem to know how to draw attractive men vs powerful men. Conan is not drawn to be attractive, he's drawn to be powerful, regardless of him wearing little more than a loincloth. There was a good example of a piece of 40k Guardsman art that I saw and immediately knew was drawn by a woman, because the character was rendered and posed in a way that made him clearly attractive. Without showing much skin, mind.

According to my wife the line for going from sexy to powerful lays just north of Alexander Skarsgård in The Northman.
She made that point repeatedly very very clear.

 

[Kaodi]

Why did it take me this long to realize or remember that Eric Northman is the star of The Northman? I guess word emphasis matters - even in English!

 

[Thourne]

Why did it take me this long to realize or remember that Eric Northman is the star of The Northman? I guess word emphasis matters - even in English!

LOl, it actually trips me up when talking about the movie sometimes. It is just odd and my brain goes to calling him Alex Northman or some stupid fumble of the tongue.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

When men are shown armorless like this or only in an armored loincloth, it's usually to show how tough and manly they are. These are not erotic poses.

When women are shown armorless (not like this) or only in a chain mail bikini, it's usually to show how sexy they are.

So ... I am going to have to disagree with this. You are welcome to your opinion, of course. But it's not one that I share.

Whether you think that the various images I have now shown (from Conan to Top Gun to Fight Club to Lost Boys) are sexy or not is your choice to make. But they are certainly sexy to a lot of people, and they are iconic for a reason. The reason Conan (Arnold) isn't wearing armor and is all oiled up ... it's not just because it's "Oh, powerful muscles." It's about an idealized and fantastical and sexy image.

This is why I made the comment about this being difficult to untangle from cultural issues; if you look at the list of movies (and the unapologetic exploration of the male form) these are often seen as overtly or covertly homoerotic. Which goes to the original issue that I am disagreeing with- that by making the argument that you are, it further codifies the idea that it is shameful or wrong for women to unapologetically enjoy the male form. That "armorless" men are not sexy, just "tough." Heck, even a movie (and a series) like Magic Mike, which was unapologetically appealing to women, is often viewed solely through the lens of being homoerotic because we are uncomfortable as a society with allowing women to simply appreciate men in a physical (and visual) way.

Which I don't agree with, at all. Again, it's why these conversations are fraught, because it's hard to unpack all the different issues that are going on. That said, I think that D&D, as an "all ages" and "big tent" TTRPG, should be doing exactly what it has been doing in terms of art direction- staying inclusive and PG.

 

[Scribe]

Borderline unfair if we are honest.

 

[Thourne]

So ... I am going to have to disagree with this. You are welcome to your opinion, of course. But it's not one that I share.

Whether you think that the various images I have now shown (from Conan to Top Gun to Fight Club to Lost Boys) are sexy or not is your choice to make. But they are certainly sexy to a lot of people, and they are iconic for a reason. The reason Conan (Arnold) isn't wearing armor and is all oiled up ... it's not just because it's "Oh, powerful muscles." It's about an idealized and fantastical and sexy image.

This is why I made the comment about this being difficult to untangle from cultural issues; if you look at the list of movies (and the unapologetic exploration of the male form) these are often seen as overtly or covertly homoerotic. Which goes to the original issue that I am disagreeing with- that by making the argument that you are, it further codifies the idea that it is shameful or wrong for women to unapologetically enjoy the male form. That "armorless" men are not sexy, just "tough." Heck, even a movie (and a series) like Magic Mike, which was unapologetically appealing to women, is often viewed solely through the lens of being homoerotic because we are uncomfortable as a society with allowing women to simply appreciate men in a physical (and visual) way.

Which I don't agree with, at all. Again, it's why these conversations are fraught, because it's hard to unpack all the different issues that are going on. That said, I think that D&D, as an "all ages" and "big tent" TTRPG, should be doing exactly what it has been doing in terms of art direction- staying inclusive an

Borderline unfair if we are honest.

2nd one Snatch?