What We Lose When We Eliminate Controversial Content

[Imaro]

I'd like to be having this discussion based on the actual intent of the individuals involved rather than assumption.
That simple really.

Then let him/her/them speak for themself.

Also, fairly certain I brought up that I disagreed with your interpretation once. Further engagement was due to disagreement with your follow ups. Not really the same thing.

You're not going to convince me your interpretation is more correct than mine unless the poster chooses to clarify... so I'm not sure what the point of this is except to go back and forth with conjecture.

At some points in this conversation you have been shown to use hyperbole and or inaccurate statements and then try to brush it off when it is pointed out. That is not interacting in good faith.

Really... when? Again if my interpretation is correct then there was no hyperbole or inaccuracies. He is claiming it is more dismissive of real world slavery and those who experienced it to chose not to include it in an imaginary make believe setting than to stick it in there.

 

[Thourne]

Really... when? Again if my interpretation is correct then there was no hyperbole or inaccuracies.

Apologies the population claims were by Hussar and indeed not you.
Sorry for the mistake.

Edit: I have removed that line from my post. I couldn't see a way to strike it through which I would have prefered so I took it out.
Again my apologies.

2nd Edit: Out of curiosity is there a way to strikethrough text on this board? I prefer to own my mistakes and not erase them.

 

[Umbran]

I do not believe RPGs carry any significant risk for causing mental or physical trauma to participants.

Perhaps you've never seen someone with PTSD have a panic attack at the table? I don't recommend the experience.

This does raise the question of what constitutes "significant risk". I mean, I know larpers who work under a "two week rule" - in their games, any physical harm that comes to you that largely resolves in two weeks allowed. So if you wrench your ankle, or get a black eye, or a lump on your head because another player slammed you against a wall during play, that's okay. I'd call that "significant physical risk", but they don't. Most larps I play in instead have some variety of rules limiting physical contact without consent instead - they have a different idea of what constitutes "significant risk".

You lay out several ways in which you are careful, which is good. I presume when cooking at home, you are also careful to not start a grease fire. And your house probably has never burst into flames before, which is good. But you either have a fire extinguisher, or you at least recognize that a home insurance company has a point in encouraging folks have fire extinguishers around, right? And I don't expect you publicly characterize fire extinguishers as "silly" right?

 

[Thourne]

Then let him/her/them speak for themself.

This is also what I would prefer, and why I expressed I had hope they would return to the thread.
That said I disagreed with your interpretation and so posted an alternative that was how I took it.

 

[Imaro]

Apologies the population claims were by Hussar and indeed not you.
Sorry for the mistake.

No worries... and I'm not trying to come off as a jerk but you all seem intent on defending someone who stated some questionable things outside of what we are discussing, took the time to write up nearly a page and dropped it in the thread then disappeared, and who could easily come back and type 2-3 lines clarifying what they meant but have instead chosen not to engage any further. If the context of his/her/their post was different maybe I'd be more willing to interpret it in a more positive light but I didn't read much positivity in that post at all... only some disturbingly outdated ideas.

 

[Thourne]

Perhaps you've never seen someone with PTSD have a panic attack at the table? I don't recommend the experience.

That would not be fun.
Honestly, anyone having a panic attack at any time or anywhere is just not fun to deal with. My wife suffered from them for years.

 

[Raunalyn]

It's not semantics. It actually matters which word you use. You excise something that exists. Once Dark Sun was released slavery existed in that setting as a fundamental part of it. Removal of slavery from Dark Sun is excising it. Before Dark Sun is released, since it doesn't exist yet as a setting, removal of slavery would have simply been making a change not excising it.

More importantly, it's not addressing the issue...it's covering it up. Slavery was a terrible thing, and it happened.

I don't know...covering it up because it makes some people uncomfortable kind of defeats the purpose of learning from the mistakes of our past.

I want to add, though, that this should be addressed and agreed upon by all party members; meaningful conversations regarding the story and what they will be doing (if slavery is involved) need to be up front and honest.

 

[Imaro]

More importantly, it's not addressing the issue...it's covering it up. Slavery was a terrible thing, and it happened.

I don't know...covering it up because it makes some people uncomfortable kind of defeats the purpose of learning from the mistakes of our past.

I want to add, though, that this should be addressed and agreed upon by all party members; meaningful conversations regarding the story and what they will be doing (if slavery is involved) need to be up front and honest.

The thing is.... we aren't talking about a history book or a documentary. How is not including it as setting dressing in an imaginary elf game "covering it up"... especially when very few people are going to roleplay the realities of slavery and the effects it had on the people who experienced it as well as their descendants. In fact there is the very real possibility that because it's a milquetoast version of what real slavery entailed people come away feeling like slavery really wasn't THAT bad... There's already a push in U.S. to very much do this in history books and this is the real disservice and dismissal of those who experienced it.

 

[MGibster]

Been a long time but I believe the Governor rapes Michonne in the comics. Pretty sure they didn't go there in the show. There have definitely been attempted sexual assaults in the show from what I remember though.

I'm not sure if the RPG is based on the comic or the television series, but some of Free League's other licensed games pull on multiple sources. In the television series, I think the Governor threatened Maggie, but it didn't go any further than that. In a later season, one of the Savior's men starts to molest Sahsa, and Negan kills him for it. In the second season, our heroes capture a guy named Randall (I think) after Rick kills a few of his group. Randall tells our protagonist that he just met up with this group, and talks about how they met a father and daughter the other day, assaulted the daughter, and left them both where they found them, but he assures them he's not like that.

Which brings me to another problematic aspect. What do you do with a prisoner? The protagonist learn that Randall is a local went to the same school with Maggie. He doesn't know where she lives, but this probably isn't something that would be difficult for them to figure out. What do you do with Randall? He hangs out with a bunch of rapist, some of whom tried to find out where our protagonist were based out of and started a conflict that resulted in their deaths. Is he like them? Or did he hook up with this group to survive and didn't realize they were monsters until it was too late? Can you just let him go with a stern warning not to come back?

This does raise the question of what constitutes "significant risk".

If your RPGs carry with it any significant risks you're pretty hardcore.

 

[Raunalyn]

The thing is.... we aren't talking about a history book or a documentary. How is not including it as setting dressing in an imaginary elf game "covering it up"... especially when very few people are going to roleplay the realities of slavery and the effects it had on the people who experienced it as well as their descendants.

Fantasy, particularly historical fantasy, is a reflection of things that happened in the past.

Dark Sun is apocalyptic fantasy...slavery is a real part of the setting. Hell, the first module of Dark Sun during 2nd edition was called "Freedom," and was about a slave uprising while witnessing the death of a sorcerer king.