D&D General what would a good orc culture be like?
Charlaquin
Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Just be careful not to fall into the “noble savage” trope if you go that direction.
CreamCloud0
One day, I hope to actually play DnD.
Oh yeah for sure, i had no intent of implying that stereotype, just much more of a ‘in tune with nature’ vibe than they currently have, druids and rangers were mentioned first in that list for a reason, like elves but buff.
DeviousQuail
Hero
I made one for a campaign but unfortunately the players never got the chance to dig into the orc culture. The gist is orcs tend to not follow any gods because their gods abandoned them and watched as their empire was annihilated. This required a restructuring of their entire society and over the last 500+ years they have created a very complex clan system. The laws and traditions of this system can often put them at odds when interacting with other cultures. However, orcs can often be found working as arbiters in legal matters or as aids to important individuals. Their experience with the clan system makes other legal systems seem like child's play in comparison.
Marandahir
Crown-Forester (he/him)
I like Orcs as hunter gatherers and steppe nomads.
Narratively, they use extremely withered tech - beyond their modern but stylized steel weapons (especially spiked metal clubs), they prefer stone-aged tech. Metal armour is a sign of weakness that you can't take the hits.
They aren't necessarily based on Eurasian steppe peoples or First Nations people, nor on Sahel or Fertile Crescent nomads, or any other groups surviving today, instead drawing on concepts like what we think Neanderthals were like, and on mythological creatures like Oni and Ogres (and yes, various fantasy Orcs).
But they're not bad. They're another group of people living their lives. They might go to war with humans or dwarves over territory, but they're not seeking it out just because. They mostly want to tend to their herds of swine and cattle, grow their barley (for beer of course), and expand their clans.
There's a relatively recent fantasy concept in some Japanese media that Orcs reproduce true (anything + Orc = Orc, no Half-Orcs allowed), and that Orcs are really into big families and expanding their clans. One could extrapolate some really vile ideas about Orcs from this in their relations to other peoples, but you can also lean into it the other way: Orcs love family. They love big families, and everyone is related somehow, everyone is equal. There's no runt of the litter because they're half-Human because it doesn't matter if the parent wasn't an Orc, their kids are Orcs too. So immigrants from other communities like Dwarves or Goblins or Humans or even Elves may live somewhat freely amongst the Orcs as equals, as long as they follow the Orc customs.
The Elder Scrolls has mostly positive Orc depictions, though they're discriminated against by other peoples because the early games in the series had them as monsters and only later did they become a playable lineage. These Orcs come in various factions - there are urban Orcs that are integrated into the cosmopolitan cities of the Human Empire; there are Wood Orcs that are almost more like Wood Elves but more violent; there are Orcs of the city of Orsinium within Wrothgar, a place forged for Orcs to throw off the shackles of the rest of the world and call it a kingdom of their own (and the King of Orsinium desperately wants to rehabilitate his people's image with a new religion and respectful relations with nearby kingdoms). There are Orcs of the Clansteads in the various mountain ranges that follow special Orcish customs and don't allow outsiders normally to enter. And yes, there are evil Orcs raising armies to destroy civilized peoples, too.
I think you don't rehabilitate Orcs by just suddenly whitewashing them and pretending everything is hunky dory. Instead, you complexify. Have good Orc communities and bad ones. And be sure to have good Human communities and bad ones. And if the human characters see Orcs as evil in the beginning, give them a chance to see how these good Orcs are better, kinder people than those bad people next door to them. Flip the expectations on their heads.
Narratively, they use extremely withered tech - beyond their modern but stylized steel weapons (especially spiked metal clubs), they prefer stone-aged tech. Metal armour is a sign of weakness that you can't take the hits.
They aren't necessarily based on Eurasian steppe peoples or First Nations people, nor on Sahel or Fertile Crescent nomads, or any other groups surviving today, instead drawing on concepts like what we think Neanderthals were like, and on mythological creatures like Oni and Ogres (and yes, various fantasy Orcs).
But they're not bad. They're another group of people living their lives. They might go to war with humans or dwarves over territory, but they're not seeking it out just because. They mostly want to tend to their herds of swine and cattle, grow their barley (for beer of course), and expand their clans.
There's a relatively recent fantasy concept in some Japanese media that Orcs reproduce true (anything + Orc = Orc, no Half-Orcs allowed), and that Orcs are really into big families and expanding their clans. One could extrapolate some really vile ideas about Orcs from this in their relations to other peoples, but you can also lean into it the other way: Orcs love family. They love big families, and everyone is related somehow, everyone is equal. There's no runt of the litter because they're half-Human because it doesn't matter if the parent wasn't an Orc, their kids are Orcs too. So immigrants from other communities like Dwarves or Goblins or Humans or even Elves may live somewhat freely amongst the Orcs as equals, as long as they follow the Orc customs.
The Elder Scrolls has mostly positive Orc depictions, though they're discriminated against by other peoples because the early games in the series had them as monsters and only later did they become a playable lineage. These Orcs come in various factions - there are urban Orcs that are integrated into the cosmopolitan cities of the Human Empire; there are Wood Orcs that are almost more like Wood Elves but more violent; there are Orcs of the city of Orsinium within Wrothgar, a place forged for Orcs to throw off the shackles of the rest of the world and call it a kingdom of their own (and the King of Orsinium desperately wants to rehabilitate his people's image with a new religion and respectful relations with nearby kingdoms). There are Orcs of the Clansteads in the various mountain ranges that follow special Orcish customs and don't allow outsiders normally to enter. And yes, there are evil Orcs raising armies to destroy civilized peoples, too.
I think you don't rehabilitate Orcs by just suddenly whitewashing them and pretending everything is hunky dory. Instead, you complexify. Have good Orc communities and bad ones. And be sure to have good Human communities and bad ones. And if the human characters see Orcs as evil in the beginning, give them a chance to see how these good Orcs are better, kinder people than those bad people next door to them. Flip the expectations on their heads.
GMforPowergamers
Legend
no we want good aligned not good like fun...
I kid
Any civilization of elves, orcs, or humans can be good or evil and pretty interchangeable.
Celebrim
Legend
Having never met any elves or orcs, I don't know if I can agree about that. Humans though...
teitan
Legend
So...Orcs?
But anyway, all cultures on earth have bad, horrible elements to them. Vikings raided, raped and pillaged.
Sacrosanct
Legend
Several months ago I did an issue of The Gnoll Sage on orcs. There were several clans highlighted, including:
A clan or pirates who attacked corporate ships and supported the poor and oppressed
A colonial clan similair to Victorian England
A nature clan where the chief changed into a different version with each solstice
An industrial clan of metal workers
An arctic clan similair to goliaths.
A nomadic clan that wore the skins of their enemies as a source of power (yeah, these ones were evil lol)
A clan or pirates who attacked corporate ships and supported the poor and oppressed
A colonial clan similair to Victorian England
A nature clan where the chief changed into a different version with each solstice
An industrial clan of metal workers
An arctic clan similair to goliaths.
A nomadic clan that wore the skins of their enemies as a source of power (yeah, these ones were evil lol)
teitan
Legend
I think the focus on good or evil cultures is wrong, but a focus on unique, Orcish culture is the proper approach. Comparing them to human cultures is what leads to cultural problems. The problem of "All Orcs are evil" even is the approach to Alignment as a hard coded part of DNA instead of a choice being made and representing Gruumshite Orcs in FR or GH as the Orcs of Eberron aren't evil because Alignment isn't hard coded. The culture is coded as evil based on it's cultural emphasis. So you start by analyzing what you want for their culture including religious elements and build out including how they approach outsiders.
Alignment shouldn't be considered an element of the design unless you are using it as a short hand reference like I would straight up call Nazis Chaotic Evil with the grand poobah himself as Lawful Evil surrounded by NE and CE cohorts wreaking havoc. If you throw in supposed occult connections of the Theistic Satanism scale you have not just a moralistically evil culture you have a Cosmically scaled evil. That's an example of a culture that alignment is easy to label.
The approach to creating a realistic culture is more complicated and should possess nuance. Orcs, for example, can maintain their more natural roots, natural world archetype including the horde for resources and conflicts with dwarves and elves by providing a history that is more than just Correlon stabbing Gruumsh's eye out blah blah. What causes real conflicts in the world? How can you apply that do the conflict in your campaign in order to run your game? Look at things like the conflicts between Scottish families or the family feuds in Appalachia or European noble houses. Have a real world explanation for those conflicts.
The cultural elements? Why do Orcs start training young for war for example? Are they known for roving mercenary bands that get hired out as their form of income? Were they once farmer who lost their lands and became mercenary lifestyles because elves, dwarves or humans took their lands in a conflict and disenfranchised them? How does that impact the story of their gods and their conflict with the elven gods?
Alignment shouldn't be considered an element of the design unless you are using it as a short hand reference like I would straight up call Nazis Chaotic Evil with the grand poobah himself as Lawful Evil surrounded by NE and CE cohorts wreaking havoc. If you throw in supposed occult connections of the Theistic Satanism scale you have not just a moralistically evil culture you have a Cosmically scaled evil. That's an example of a culture that alignment is easy to label.
The approach to creating a realistic culture is more complicated and should possess nuance. Orcs, for example, can maintain their more natural roots, natural world archetype including the horde for resources and conflicts with dwarves and elves by providing a history that is more than just Correlon stabbing Gruumsh's eye out blah blah. What causes real conflicts in the world? How can you apply that do the conflict in your campaign in order to run your game? Look at things like the conflicts between Scottish families or the family feuds in Appalachia or European noble houses. Have a real world explanation for those conflicts.
The cultural elements? Why do Orcs start training young for war for example? Are they known for roving mercenary bands that get hired out as their form of income? Were they once farmer who lost their lands and became mercenary lifestyles because elves, dwarves or humans took their lands in a conflict and disenfranchised them? How does that impact the story of their gods and their conflict with the elven gods?
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