What would D&D look like without the emphasis on minis & maps?

[RangerWickett]

Imagine the designers of 4e wanted to make a game that doesn't force people to buy minis. Of course, they wouldn't do that, because minis bring in money (I assume), but maybe they decide to be nice to those of us who don't care about using minis and want to run something more like Hong Kong Action Flicks -- fast and loose.

How do other game systems handle combat?

Some ideas I have for changing up combat.

No Attack of Opportunity.

You can choose a foe as your primary target. Doing this takes a move action (so you can still move and get one attack in). Thereafter, you move freely with your opponent as long as your speed is about equal. You can make a full attack against this opponent each round, because even if you're moving, you're fighting while moving. Your target can take a move action to withdraw.

Before any combat, divide the battlefield into quadrants of roughly 100 feet square. In each quadrant, you have melee and close range. Anything outside that quadrant is considered medium range. Anything four quadrants or more away, or that are outside the battleground, are considered to be at long range.

If you're in the melee range of combat, you can reach any other creature in the melee range with a move action. You can move from close to melee, or from melee to close as a move action. If you're at close range, you can move into an adjacent area as a full-round action.

In each quadrant there might be several areas of interest, such as a pit, a lake of fire, an iron maiden, and so on. As a move action, a character may reach any area of interest in his quadran. Alternately, as a full-round action, a character may attempt to drive an opponent to a given location. This requires a opposed attack roll. If successful, you drive your foe to within the area (if it's large, like an antimagic area or a hedgerow that can provide cover), or to within 5-ft. (if it's small or dangerous, like a wall of fire or a pit). Then, if you want to force the person somewhere specific (like into an iron maiden, or over a cliff), you must make a bull rush.

A creature is considered off-balance (loses its Dex bonus to AC) if it is being attacked by two or more creatures in melee.

I think that's a good starting point.

 

[Acquana]

I know what it would look like: White Wolf.

It's true. Considering d20 doesn't really run on stats, but modifiers (ie "dots"), we're already half-way there.

 

[jaerdaph]

AD&D?

 

[Arnwyn]

Uh... like it has for the last 20 years?

 

[PowerWordDumb]

It would look like every other version of D&D. Namely, it would benefit from the use of miniatures and map, but doesn't strictly speaking require them.

3E is further enhanced by using the tools, but doesn't require them any more than prior versions did. It can be adjudicated mapless just like the older variants. Did most DMs somehow lose this ability when 3E came out?

 

[Breakstone]

It would look like this, wouldn't it?

 

[KnowTheToe]

Re: What would D&D look like without the emphasis on minis & maps?

A much less rule heavy game that runs a lot quicker. It would lose the war gaming flavor it has picked up and have a little less interest between a player and his character. Mini's and maps can take a lot of the GMs ability to move a story along, fudge an NPC escape for a grander confrontation later.

Exit: I personally always have loved mini's and have used them for years. On the other hand, most of my favorite gaming memories come from games that did not use mini's. My favorit combat would not have been anything special without using mini's. Spoilers for RttToEE.


When big U uses hover and clouds everyone's vision, the DM, Tony, suddenly moved the DM screen to cover our PCs and we had to try and remember the layout etc while we were getting our asses handed to us by U. Our wizard wildly flung fireballs and killed two party members and my animal companion. That was an awesome fight and I would again like to thank Tony for a job well done.

 

[just__al]

It would look like every other version of D&D. Namely, it would benefit from the use of miniatures and map, but doesn't strictly speaking require them.

3E is further enhanced by using the tools, but doesn't require them any more than prior versions did. It can be adjudicated mapless just like the older variants. Did most DMs somehow lose this ability when 3E came out?

There are a few feats, abilities and skills that don't work as well as they might without knowing where everybody is in relation to each other.

The ones that come to mind right away are Tumble, Mobility, Spring Attack, Combat reflexes, charging, and flanking.

You certainly can keep track of everything without a map and mini's but it's not easy to do. If you play with attacks of opportunity and other rules that pretty well require to know where people are.

However, you do not need to plonk down 30 dollars on a chesex battle mat and start painting minatures. You can tape some hex paper to a cork board (or some thick cardboard) and use push pins to keep track of where people are. It wouldn't cost a lot and wouldn't take up a lot of room on the table.

My group does in fact use a battle mat and minatures. Most of the people in the game actually enjoy painting them. I've taken to using the creature tokens from dungeon and mage knight pieces since they are pretty cheap but I plan on painting a minuture for the next campaign when I actually get to play instead of DM.

I'd hate to spend all my feats and skill points on movement based abilities and then never have them come into play.

 

[d12]

And here I thought I had you converted to counters and grids forever RW! *Sigh*

 

[WayneLigon]

And 3E doesn't have to use maps or mini's either; where people picked this up (unless they're just slavishly following along with book illustrations), I don't know.

On the other hand, rarely have I ever played an RPG, be it Call fo Cthulhu, White Wolf, D&D, Champions or anything else where we didn't at least use maps. There's just no other fair way to tell where people are otherwise and it prevents the game from grinding to a halt when people say things like 'Um, I said I was by the door; no way I'm in the blast radius of a fireball'.

So how do the 'no map, no mini' people handle that, other than saying 'You're where I remember you being last, rather than what you said'.